I'll give my thoughts, and then you all can give yours.

Somewhere in Alabama, disclaimer stickers were placed on all middle and high school science books about Evolution. It was parents opposed to evolution (on religious grounds) who insisted the stickers be placed there, saying we should be catious about Evolution, as it is just a theory.

First, I'd like to point out the difference between the real meaning of theory and the wrong meaning. A scientific theory is a compilation of facts, that have not yet been disproven. A theory as we use the word most is basically a hypothesis. There is an obvious difference. Evolution is a scientific theory.

Both Evolution and Creationism/Religion are theories. The difference is Evolution is a Scientific theory, based on fact, whereas Creationism, and even Religion, is a hypothesis, with no fact to back it up. Religion isn't even considered a hypothesis, as there is no way to prove it wrong.

The parents who suggested the sticker are obviously ignorant about science. The ACLU is suing over the sticker (thank god someone fights for civil liberties).

Now, what are your thoughts?

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Now, this said, i want to make it clear, this is not one of my beliefes, so please dont bager me about it should you find it incorrect, in the first post by anakin he said lets put our feeligns besides, THIS IS JUST AN IDEA.

sorry bout that, im getting a bit paranoid

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It's amazing that a soup of chemicals in a warm bath catalyzed by lightning produced amino acids to coil into DNA (ok, this is the final missing step, last I heard of, but the chemical-to-amino acids via electrical arcing into warm salt-water bath has been reproduced in the lab myriad times) -- anyway, it's amazing that this eventually led to Man, but it did.

On an even more primitive level, that of the quantum, we have now discovered that pairs of quarks (the building blocks of protons and neutrons and so on) spontaneously appear and disappear all the time.

Hmmm... maybe that's God. Who knows.

All I know is that we've proven evolution to be factual... and all world religions are based only on faith and beliefs which, I might add, can't even be said to be hypotheses. Hypotheses are subject to tests to verify them....

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and for all you that want to be amazed by the simplicity of a scientific fact...sometimes a theory, though i do believe there has been a change in defenition, that seperate the two...not sure though. but heres a scientific fact/theory

" i have 37 fingers" amazingly simple...no?

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Loban, Evolution was funny. I have a question for you that stems from your "I understand, but I can't say God doesn't exist." Is God merciful and just? If so, why is it so hard to admit that there is considerable doubt? He would understand if he is merciful and just, wouldn't he?

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I have come up with a little saying I like to bandy about here and there: True Science Seeks Truth... Always. Actually, a true scientist ALWAYS seeks to disprove the proven theories, for only by the lack thereof do those theories continue to hold true.

And nothing is more exciting when a proven theory gets disproven... boy howdy does everyone leap aboard the bandwagon to seek newer answers!

The main difference between science and faith/beliefs, I believe, is that science seeks the proof'/truth by reproducible FACTS. Faith/beliefs spring from the basis of VERY subjective and personal FEELINGS. There is a BIG DIFFERENCE.

For example, for whatever the reason, say I believe that Jupiter's core is actually a gigantic diamond (as posited by Arthur C. Clarke). How physical laws operate upon that planet, combined with the materials of which we know it is made, would lead us to believe it COULD be possible. In fact, VERY possible. It just makes sense. BUT: no matter how I point to this factor and that factor, no matter how cleverly I word the debate to justify my beliefs in this matter, in fact using science "against" itself, heh...

...THE FACT REMAINS THAT AT THIS POINT IT IS ALL CONJECTURE. Until we can devise a means of penetrating the planets awesome atmosphere and standing up to its tremendous pressures, WE SIMPLY DON'T KNOW FOR A FACT if the core is a diamond or not.

Oh yes... and then there is the difference between scientific theory and law. Theories which are continually upheld by proof then become scientific laws (ie: the law of gravity, the laws of thermodynamics, etc.). These are the BIG GUYS, the ones we accept as the means by which the universe in general is run... and the ones that really shake the world when they come tumbling down.

And that is the difference between science and faith. Now you know the rest of the story.

[ 08-23-2002 11:01 AM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Graysith ]

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Did you know that the human genome and that of a chimpanzee share NINETY-EIGHT PERCENT of the same genes? That 98% of our genetic make-up is EXACTLY like that of the chimpanzee? We share 97% with gorillas... and -- SURPRISE -- chimps share 97% of their genetic code with gorillas, too.

What this boils down to is that humans and chimpanzees are closer together genetically than humans are with gorillas... or than gorillas are with chimpanzees.

The PRIMARY difference separating us from the other apes (YES WE'RE APES, ADMIT IT!!!) is the fact that chimps and gorillas have 24 pairs of chromosomes, and we have 23 pairs. BUT: it turns out that one set they have fused together to make one BIGGER pair in us... I think it's Chromosome Two. (they are numbered according to size, biggest to smallest). Studying Chromosome Two has proven it to be practically identical to two sets carried by chimps and gorillas (I don't know the specific sets, sorry).

Kinda humbling, isn't it, but there's your "Missing Link," folks....

[ 08-23-2002 11:12 AM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Graysith ]

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*goes off calling people chimps left and right* MAUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

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Chuckles through whiskers.

Kind of brings new meaning to the term, "You big ape!!!" doesn't it?

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"stop acting stupid"

"i cant... im 98% chimp..."

hehe. and as for ape...2 words come to mind.

"THOCK SMASH!"

heh, oh, just FYI you can have tons of fun with those two words...whenever someone say's anything just scream "AARRG! THOCK SMASH!" everyone in the school looks at you as if youve lost your mind...hehe, and also, run around skiping and singing "we're off to see the wizard..." i tell you, your friends will pretend you dont exist... hehe.

In case you havnt noticed, i like to have fun

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Originally posted by Entaris:Actauly anakin, i hate to be the mean SOB that tells ya this, but a scientific fact/theory is something that CAN be disproven, like saying there are places in the univers man will never see, that is not a scientific fact, cause thers no way to disprove it, BUT if there is a way to disprove it, then it is indeed a scientific fact, or at least theory, and if you wish to disagree with this, i would be happy to sick my physics teacher on you

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What the hell? That's what I've been saying. You can have a thousand experiments to prove something, but without a test to prove it wrong (doesn't necessarily have to be proven wrong, there just has to be a test) it's scientific.

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Although I think with Evolution, you are placing your faith in another beleif. Nothing can be proven yet. I'm ordering a book that I've read once that increased my faith in Intelligent Design even more. I will share some of my thoughts later. Right now, lets keep this debated civilized.

[ 08-23-2002 03:18 PM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by BobPalpatine ]

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"Can't you hear my motored heart? Your the one that started it!"

-Foo Fighters "Generator"

Cogito ergo sum

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And Bob... this conversation has indeed remained civilized up to this point...

...at least as civilized as a 98%-chimp primate can get...!!!!

Ummm... also, excuse me, but I thought I said the genetic correlation for evolution has already been proven???? When have you opened a science book lately?

We did not descend from the apes....

We ARE apes, a species of upright bipedal primate... only as a rule we're brainier than our cousins and have less hair and pitiful teeth.

All of the apes: chimpanzee, gorilla, orangutan and Man... all have descended from a common ancestor... and the genetic tracings go back even further. We can trace it all the way to "Luca," the Last Universal Common Ancestor. Kind of an itty-bitty bacterium type.

Even more humbling to realize that not only are we ALL THUS CONNECTED, but the arising of mankind was actually kind of a happenstance. Fusing of those chromosomes....

[ 08-23-2002 05:08 PM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Graysith ]

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According to Mr. Webster, "correlation" means:

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a relation existing between phenomena or things or between mathematical or statistical variables which tend to vary, be associated, or occur together in a way not expected on the basis of chance alone

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And again, according to Webster, "cause" means:

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something that brings about an effect or a result c : a person or thing that is the occasion of an action or state; especially : an agent that brings something about d : sufficient reason <discharged for cause>

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A genetic correlation, as I understand it then, would mean that two things seem to be happening TOGETHER. You can prove a correlation exists, of course, by taking the data. But in order to prove that our similarities in genetic code with apes are CAUSED because we evolved from them, you'd have to do an experiment rather than simply collect the data. (although, with our current technology, the experiment that would be necessary is HIGHLY improbable)

All this rigamoroll to say that, although it IS improbable that similarities in the genetic code of apes and humans exist by chance, this does NOT necessarily mean then that the only way this could have happened is if humans evolved from apes.

Call me a religious idiot if you like, but I can think of other possible reasons for the similarity. The way I see it, why waste a good genetic code if it works?

You may all start laughing now.

[ 08-23-2002 05:23 PM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Mara1Jade ]

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