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Anakin



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posted 11-18-2000 07:23 PM     Profile for Anakin   Author's Homepage   Email Anakin     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ok, looking at a star, guessing that solar system is the size of ours, how far out would pluto be? An inch, two inches? Or I'll rephrase, you're in a different solar system looking at this one, how far from the sun would pluto be?

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Anakin
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Graysith



Chosen Daughter

Member # 27

posted 11-18-2000 09:47 PM     Profile for Graysith   Author's Homepage   Email Graysith     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hmmm... lessee, this is indeed an unusual question. For starters, the earth is approximately 93,000,000 miles from the Sun. That is called one "Astronomical Unit." The orbit of Pluto is about 4 billion miles away from the Sun, or roughly about 40 times farther away than the earth.

HOWEVER the deciding factor here is our distance from the star in question. The closest Star to us, Proxima Centauri, is a mere 4 light years away. But keep in mind that this translates into a distance that is truly "astronomical." Here we go:

Light travels at a speed of approximately 186,000 miles per second. Now multiply this by 60, to get how many miles it travels in a minute; multiply that by 60 to get how many miles it travels in an hour; multiply that by 24 to get how many miles it travels in a day, and multiply that by 365 to get how many miles it travels in a year. I come up with a value of: 5,865,696,000,000, or almost 6 trillion miles. That is simply unfathomable to the human brain. Oh yeah, multiplying that by 4 gives us the distance to the nearest star: 24 trillion miles.

At that distance a good telescope should be able to distinguish a planet at Pluto's distance from it's sun. However, most stars are farther out than that. In another example, there is a double star in the constellation of Hercules which consists of a red giant and it's companion star. Now granted, this system is 350 light years from us, but astronomically speaking is still considered a neighbor. Using a powerful telescope, we can just barely make out the separation between the two stars in question, and these guys are 700 A.U apart! Wayyyyy farther apart than Pluto is from our sun!

Basically, to spot a planet at Pluto's distance from the sun would be telescopically feasible if the star were really close to us, like Alpha Centauri. The planet would probably be a little speck practically next to the sun in that case. Much farther out than that, and we would not be able to resolve the two; they would look as one to us. And no way would we be able to actually "see" this with the naked eye.

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[monger=000FFF,FFF000]"I Ride the Stormcloud and the Night!"[/monger]


Posts: 3904 | From: Indianola, Iowa | Registered: Jul 2000  |  Logged: 209.255.158.117
Anakin



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posted 11-18-2000 10:16 PM     Profile for Anakin   Author's Homepage   Email Anakin     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm talkin seeing *where* it would be with the naked eye. I know you can't see it, i'm asking how far from a star would it be...an inch?

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Anakin
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BobPalpatine



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posted 11-18-2000 10:24 PM     Profile for BobPalpatine   Author's Homepage   Email BobPalpatine     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Uh...I guess your talkin from our point of veiw and how far apart it would seem from a star???

Well what if we can't see that star either??? If I think I know what your asking...I don't think there's any way to really answer that question cept...there's infinite possibilities...

Heh...if I'm way off there Graysith will correct me

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Posts: 681 | From: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: Jun 2000  |  Logged: 204.184.54.47
Anakin



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posted 11-18-2000 10:44 PM     Profile for Anakin   Author's Homepage   Email Anakin     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You can see stars, geez. Ok heres what I mean:

You look up and see a star *

Now, looking at it with the naked eye, how far from the star is pluto?

Is it like this? . *

the . being pluto? Like is it an inch from the star? a centimeter? a foot?

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Anakin
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Posts: 1663 | From: Louisville, Ky/Chicago, IL | Registered: Apr 2000  |  Logged: 204.33.52.105
BobPalpatine



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posted 11-18-2000 10:54 PM     Profile for BobPalpatine   Author's Homepage   Email BobPalpatine     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
heh...thats a lot more complicated than I'm goin into...

And there are stars you can't see dude

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Anakin



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posted 11-18-2000 10:59 PM     Profile for Anakin   Author's Homepage   Email Anakin     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
well wtf would I ask about a star I can't see?

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Anakin
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Posts: 1663 | From: Louisville, Ky/Chicago, IL | Registered: Apr 2000  |  Logged: 204.33.52.105
BobPalpatine



Foo Fighter

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posted 11-18-2000 11:17 PM     Profile for BobPalpatine   Author's Homepage   Email BobPalpatine     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
uh....I'll leave this question for Graysith

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Graysith



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posted 11-18-2000 11:17 PM     Profile for Graysith   Author's Homepage   Email Graysith     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Takes a deep breath....

Ok guys, what I am trying to get across is this: a mere 40 AU separation translates into, er-- hehe, (here we go) mere fractions of a "second" of degree of arc. And that is at a fairly close distance.

In other words, the planet would be practically on top of the star. Even if we could "see" the speck, it would be too close to visualize. No "inch" or "centimeter" or even "millimeter" about it, looking up at the sky....

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[monger=000FFF,FFF000]"I Ride the Stormcloud and the Night!"[/monger]


Posts: 3904 | From: Indianola, Iowa | Registered: Jul 2000  |  Logged: 209.255.158.36
BobPalpatine



Foo Fighter

Member # 17

posted 11-18-2000 11:18 PM     Profile for BobPalpatine   Author's Homepage   Email BobPalpatine     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
AH HAHAH thats what I was trying to say!! I couldn't think of words for it exactly tho...

Ohh yea me and Graysith posted at the same time

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Posts: 681 | From: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: Jun 2000  |  Logged: 204.184.54.47
Graysith



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posted 11-18-2000 11:46 PM     Profile for Graysith   Author's Homepage   Email Graysith     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Let me try to explain a lil further, so you can see what I am trying to say, Ani.

Look directly above you. Now look to the horizon in any direction. That whole distance is 90 degrees of arc.

Divide that into tenths. Now you are looking at a portion which measures 10 degrees of arc. (About the width of your hand held out at arm's length.) Now divide that up into tenths again, and you have ten little sections of sky each measuring 1 degree of arc. (Roughly the width of one finger held at arm's length)

OK: Now divide that little 1-degree section into 60, to represent the 60 minutes it is divided into. Take one of those, and divide it into 60, to represent the 60 seconds of arc it is divided into.

Now, consider that about 4 seconds of arc translates into I think, hmmmm... something like 700 A.U.'s of separation. And Pluto is only 40 A.U.'s away from the Sun. This would then be about 0.23" of arc. This is the apparent "length" of a piece of sky that is approximately 1/4 of 1/360th of a section the size of the width of your finger.

Like I said, I don't think we'd be able to see the planet at all, unless we were very close to the star. As close as we are to Alpha and Proxima Centauri.

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[monger=000FFF,FFF000]"I Ride the Stormcloud and the Night!"[/monger]

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Graysith on November 18, 2000]


Posts: 3904 | From: Indianola, Iowa | Registered: Jul 2000  |  Logged: 209.255.158.36
Anakin



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posted 11-19-2000 12:12 AM     Profile for Anakin   Author's Homepage   Email Anakin     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ugh, I don't want to see it, I want to see WHERE it would be. and what you said went completly over my head, just tell me where to look and be able to think "there could be a planet there" in coordination with a star.

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Anakin
[monger=ff0000,ffffff]Holonet Jedi Master[/monger]
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-Have you mowed your lawn today?-
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Posts: 1663 | From: Louisville, Ky/Chicago, IL | Registered: Apr 2000  |  Logged: 204.33.52.67
BobPalpatine



Foo Fighter

Member # 17

posted 11-19-2000 12:34 AM     Profile for BobPalpatine   Author's Homepage   Email BobPalpatine     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
So you pretty much want to know where the coordinates of the plant is???

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BobPalpatine
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Posts: 681 | From: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: Jun 2000  |  Logged: 204.184.55.186
Anakin



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posted 11-19-2000 12:39 AM     Profile for Anakin   Author's Homepage   Email Anakin     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I can't make it anymore clear. Ok, I look up, I see a star I circle that star with my eyes (about an inch out) and think, there could be a planet there. IS IT A ******* INCH OR A ******* FOOT!?

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Anakin
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-Have you mowed your lawn today?-
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Posts: 1663 | From: Louisville, Ky/Chicago, IL | Registered: Apr 2000  |  Logged: 204.33.52.67
Graysith



Chosen Daughter

Member # 27

posted 11-19-2000 12:47 AM     Profile for Graysith   Author's Homepage   Email Graysith     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ani, to make it simple: look at a star. You are looking where the planet would be. It is so far away, that even being as far away as Pluto is from our Sun, the planet would appear to be right next to the star in question, if not on top of it. If the star happens to be close to us, perhaps the planet would be about... mmmmm, still way less than a millimeter to look at.

It is just too small a distance to be trying to see over a distance that is simply too large. I don't know how else to put it!

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[monger=000FFF,FFF000]"I Ride the Stormcloud and the Night!"[/monger]


Posts: 3904 | From: Indianola, Iowa | Registered: Jul 2000  |  Logged: 209.255.158.36
Anakin



Retired

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posted 11-19-2000 12:49 AM     Profile for Anakin   Author's Homepage   Email Anakin     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That's all ya had to say

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Anakin
[monger=ff0000,ffffff]Holonet Jedi Master[/monger]
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-Have you mowed your lawn today?-
-Trying is the first step towards failure......-
-Mama always said life was like a box of chocolates.....-
-People bring out the worst in me-


Posts: 1663 | From: Louisville, Ky/Chicago, IL | Registered: Apr 2000  |  Logged: 204.33.52.67

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