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Author
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Topic: Hmmm...
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Graysith
Chosen Daughter
Member # 27
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posted 09-20-2000 01:03 AM
     
I am a firm believer in the Big Bang Theory. That billions of years ago (about 15 billion or so) all matter existed in a weird pre-spacial orientation that was non-chaotic and every bit was simultaneous everywhere and nowhere. (Hard to imagine this state). Perhaps it was clumpy; something cause it to begin gravitationally contracting (in a manner of speaking, since there really wasn't any of the forces in existence yet, it isn't thought)--anyway, all coalesced together, then burst outward in the "Big Bang."With matter exploding outward, space was created. With there now being space between matter, time was created. Space and time are firmly united. The forces came into being, since there was matter in discrete "patches" throughout the growing universe; we call these patches stars and galaxies and so on. Where all this matter came from to begin with? Matter = energy (just another form of it) and energy cannot be created or destroyed. Quantum mechanics shows us that particles pop in and out of existence in the universe all the time; where these "virtual particals" come from, who knows. But they contain "negative" energy. This part gives me a headache, I'll admit that. I'm just beginning to learn about it. So where the matter/energy originated, I haven't a clue. But it all converged billions of years ago in the Big Bang to create the Universe that exists today. (Background radiation from the Big Bang has been detected, lending great credence to this Theory) Some cosmologist believe that eventually the Universe will contract back down again (gravitationally slowed, then collapsing in on itself) to create another Big Bang in the future. And maybe the Big Bang that created us wasn't the first one, either...! ------------------
[monger=000FFF,FF0000]"I Ride the Stormcloud and the Night!"[/monger]
Posts: 3904 | From: Indianola, Iowa | Registered: Jul 2000 | Logged: 152.163.197.76
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Graysith
Chosen Daughter
Member # 27
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posted 09-20-2000 09:05 PM
Bob, the "holes" in the Big Bang Theory are all primarily based, I think, on the big controversy surrounding Hubble's redshifting. Is redshifting truly representative of an expanding universe, or merely the result of light being bent by a heavy gravitational source? (Really, I believe they have proven that redshifting holds water, and then there is the little matter of background radiation which had been discovered.)The last I have heard, the age of the Universe (at least this one, hehehe) is somewhere between 10-20 billion years; setting more closely around 15-16 billion, I think. As far as where did the stuff come from?--I think quantum physics will some day help "prove" that virtual pairs simultaneous erupt. I mean, we know this now; perhaps this sort of thing is the ultimate source of all matter. Maybe it erupted from another universe existing on another timeline somehow linked with ours. Who knows, we certainly don't at this point. Hence the headaches cosmologists get...! What I find of greater interest is that when the present Universe did begin expanding outward in the Big Bang, all the matter (primarily hydrogen and helium) began to coalesce into the first bunch of stars. Well, not all of it; star-making is a pretty inefficient process, hehehe.... Anyway, those stars went along their rather rapid lives, super-novaeing to spew matter out into space, which then coalesced into the current Population I stars of which our sun is but one, along with all the myriad planets, asteroids, cometary bodies, superstrings (theoerized) etc. etc... Folks, this includes what evolves on those planets as well. Just think: the atoms in your body probably originated in the heart of a blue-giant star, billions of years ago! We are made of star-stuff! ------------------
[monger=000FFF,FF0000]"I Ride the Stormcloud and the Night!"[/monger]
Posts: 3904 | From: Indianola, Iowa | Registered: Jul 2000 | Logged: 205.188.200.33
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Rogue Angel
Jedi Knight
Member # 33
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posted 09-27-2000 07:53 PM
Well, I believe in the Big Bang theory, and I have great respect for scientists and their work and I don't want to discount them in any way.But what I don't believe in is that it all happened by chance. I believe that there was some guiding, creating force that set all of these events into motion. To me, that force is God. I have no problem whatsoever believing in God and believing in evolution and the Big Bang at the sme time. Faith and science don't conflict--to my way of thinking, each explains phenomenae the other cannot. I believe God gave us the intelligence to discover and explore, and that we should use it. However, if we only use our brains, we ignore the other half of our psyche, the spiritual side. The way I see it, if I believe in God, if He does exist, I've got it made. If he doesn't, well then, I haven't entirely wasted my life. I've lived it by the precepts I believe to be true. ------------------
"Is that a lightsaber in your pocket or are ya just happy to see me?"
Posts: 357 | From: Mississippi, USA | Registered: Jul 2000 | Logged: 172.139.240.145
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Graysith
Chosen Daughter
Member # 27
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posted 09-27-2000 11:03 PM
Oops! Bob, I missed your post!Ummm-- I hate to break this to ya, but we KNOW how old the solar system is by argon dating of rock. We have brought back specimens from the moon, we have found meteorites we know originated on the moon and Mars (and even one we think is from Venus) which we have argon dated as well. All tests point to extremely old ages, particularly in the case of the Allende meteorite and lunar samples. (By the way, we have also found rock on the earth's surface that dates back to about 3.5 billion years). The back side of the moon shows extensive cratering; this is because the moon has been brought into synchronous orbit with the earth. That is to say, it's period of rotation is the same as it's period of revolution: it always keeps one face presented to the earth, which has protected that side somewhat over time. Also, seismic data we have gleaned from the moon (along with tests done upon sample rocks) tell us a story about the moon. Within the first 1 or 2 billion years after it's initial formation, extensive lava flows erupted on its surface (we have determined it was molten down to about 400 km; the crust then slowly cooled and hardened); about the same time, the early meteoric impact rate slowed to it's current slow rate. The lunar highlands reflect the early rate of impacts; it is just the lava flow covered most of what had hit. Lava flows also covered one face of the moon, due to that side facing the earth and being attracted by tidal stresses. As for the Sun still exhibiting nuclear fusion: it continues because it has the mass. It is still primarily hydrogen slowly fusing to helium at the core; there is a heckuva lot of hydrogen there! Enough that we know it has "burned" for about 5 billion years, and will continue for another 5 billion. We have determined this using Einstein's E =mcsquared equation (which by the way we know works, otherwise we would not have produced the hydrogen bomb) and by studying the Sun's luminosity (which is the rate it is losing energy). Knowing it's mass, as well as it's luminosity, we can show that it has enough material to "burn" for another 5 billion years. Do you want to see the math? ------------------
[monger=000FFF,FF0000]"I Ride the Stormcloud and the Night!"[/monger]
Posts: 3904 | From: Indianola, Iowa | Registered: Jul 2000 | Logged: 205.188.200.27
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Graysith
Chosen Daughter
Member # 27
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posted 09-28-2000 12:27 PM
Bob:You wrote: "Well how come the sun is exibiting Nuclear Fusion like it should at that age...and the moon would be filled with many more craters if it had been around that long. Many scientists have seen that with the way the moon is that it is only THOUSANDS of years old and there is no way it is billions of years old...how do you explain that?" I was responding to this question when explaining the amount of cratering which exists on the Moon, as well as it's apparent "lop-sidedness." Perhaps I now did not need to, as your latest post reflects a comment in direct opposition to this one? Another comment: that branch of Christianity (there are several) which adheres to the belief that the earth and solar system and sun, etc. are merely thousands of years old, just by stating that belief, is in direct conflict with proven fact and overwhelming data supporting the known age of our solar system as being about 4.6 billion years of age. And if "God" does indeed exist, I believe it to be the Universe in it's entirety. That makes sense, can easily support both scientific and theologic data, and is actually very simple. Occam's Razor tells us "...the simplest explanation is usually the truth." Nature likes to be simple, as it is a state closest to the entropic one toward which everything in the universe is travelling.  ------------------
[monger=000FFF,FF0000]"I Ride the Stormcloud and the Night!"[/monger]
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Graysith on September 28, 2000]
Posts: 3904 | From: Indianola, Iowa | Registered: Jul 2000 | Logged: 205.188.200.31
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Anakin
Retired
Member # 8
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posted 09-28-2000 04:09 PM
Bob: How can someone see all this and see an explanation for it (The Big Bang) and still think there is a god? The Universe is simply too big for a god. There would have to like one god for every solar system, because there's more than likely other life forms out there, they would need a god too right? And, you shouldn't believe everything you were taught when you were young, because if you had been Budhist, you wouldn't believe in the God you believe in right now, and you would think there isn't a god. You have to see the whole picture, man created god, and that's that. ------------------
Anakin
[monger=ff0000,ffffff]Holonet Jedi Master[/monger]
Forum Administrator -Have you mowed your lawn today?-
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Posts: 1663 | From: Louisville, Ky/Chicago, IL | Registered: Apr 2000 | Logged: 166.62.175.79
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posted 09-27-2000 10:38 PM
