I hope that we can avoid a conflict, I am willing to fight, but only under the right circumstances.

I feel that BUSH should offer Sadam a sweeter offer. It is not his fault that the world can't find Bin Laden, who is the real cause of this mess.

I just hope that GOD steps in and enlightens both parties on the issue of war, and the consequences of thier actions.

I mean it's pretty easy for an individual to order young people into battle for them, when they will never see the front lines.

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Spare the condenscending sentiment. We got rid of the draft years ago; this is what people join our military for, for pity's sake. And as for Saddam...

It's time to take him out. Conditions there are atrocious. This has come out time and again with refugees or Iraqis seeking asylum and such. Saddam is not adhering to the UN parameters; he's showing one hand publicly while being sneaky with the other. (Sheesh, we can fly over Iraq with our spy planes to "check things out" ONLY after telling them when said overflight is to take place? And when we pop over for a look-see on our own we are greeted with Iraqi fighter jets? Oh give me a break.)

Personally I'm surprised President Bush hasn't made the announcement yet... he'd better do so on that address he's supposed to give the nation tonight. I'm tired of hanging around, I've read the battle plan, it's going to be as surgical as possible and will actually benefit the Iraqi people.

(This whole idea of worrying about civilian casualties has me laughing in an ironic kind of way. Since when is war supposed to be moral? It's supposed to be nasty, which is why it's to be avoided in the first place, sheesh....)

But then, people, let's not get so involved with this one particular incident as to forget the real and growing threat: North Korea. THAT'S the direction that has me worried.

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I don't know if you are aware of this but 90% of the acid rain that New Brunswick receives is due to the weather system that blows up the pollution form DETROIT and cities like that. So if, GOD FORBID, you do get hit with biochemical missiles, I would be directly affected. So I do feel that I am justified in makeing comments on this rediculous war!

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Bit of a subject change here:

I've been reading rumours in a bunch of international news web sites that a Neo-Nazi terrorist group is planning something big in the United States, Russia, and Germany. Typically, they didn't say what it is or when its going to happen...

[ 03-17-2003 02:32 PM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by TheKnot ]

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Well... all I can say about the supposed Neo-Nazi threat is this: if YOU can read about it that easily, you'd better bet your last dollar so can the CIA or whoever the heck we have in charge of national intrastructural defense. I'm not too worried about a flaky group like that.

Iran... that gives me pause.

And about the nukes: Dash, NO ONE has the range to hit anywhere close to what would affect you, so don't worry. And if it would get that big Canada would probably be caught in the conflagration anyway, as it would just unravel into the BIG ONE... where nobody wins.

I seriously doubt we'd be hit with an ICBM kind of thing. Maybe some small megaton nukes, the hand carry kind someone builds here and sets off in some parking garage... but those aren't as far reaching in radiation levels, I don't think. Unless they're dirty bombs, which we know "they" have been looking into, so who the heck knows. Right now, that's the only way anything nuclear would ever hit us, I think.

Anyway, this is why we're trying to get rid of the psychopaths who would foment this kind of thing to begin with. Such as Saddam... and probably what's his name in North Korea as well, since he's already hollering nuclear war, sheesh, whatta goof.

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Yay. Go USA!!!!

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It's time folks. Time to stop worrying and crawling under our blankets, pretending we can simply hide. If you are THAT scared that this guy will do something...

...then why don't we just take him out before he does? No more lassiez-faire tactics. It got us in trouble during Pearl Harbor and World War I. We weren't bothering any other countries, had our noses in our own business...

...and BANG. Lots of lives lost, all for the sake of "keeping to ourselves." History has a habit of repeating itself unless we step in and LEARN from it.

We are learning. Diplomacy is good, but it's been TWELVE YEARS.

It is time.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dash Kelderon:
You make a good point, Gray. But this whole mess could be avoided if BUSH would stop trying to finish his fathers work!!!

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I thought the war in '91 was simply to kick Iraq out of Kuwait...isn't that why we didn't o all the way to Baghdad when we had the chance?

quote:

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You seem pretty anxious... will you be grabbing a rifle and heading over to IRAQ to kick some ass?

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I would if I could...if this war took place 4 or 5 years later I might be bombing Saddam's arse! (Yes, I had to say arse, after all, it's St. Pat's day!)

Oh yeah, I think it's about time that we took care of Iraq. As for North Korea, I don't really see them as too much of a threat, since they're known to be saber rattlers that take almost no real action. But then again, who knows?

[ 03-17-2003 09:26 PM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Taehun ]

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I am not appologizing for my opinion, but rather that I voiced it to you. I understand how you feel, and can also appreciate your feelings and opinions.

I just don't want to be exiled or anything becasue I don't share your opinion of war!

Thank you, Adam

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I do wish Saddam would depart peacefully, but he won't... and even if he did that's no guarantee that his regime wouldn't simply replace him, either.

We made an ultimatum in a manner to which he cannot acquiese, and friends n' neighbors, we be going to war in the Gulf again!

And to answer a question from way up there somewhere... YES. I would go over and fight if I could.

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Good god ya'll...

I ask you, what is it really good for?

anyone?

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...but Germany isn't a Nazi state where Jews are destroyed now, is it?

...Japan is "democracized"

What is war good for? When it is the last resort (which it is here now)...

...effecting change, when it is won...

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Bones, I need that damn torpedo...

She's ready Jim, lock and load...

Fire...

To be...

Or not...

To be...

(Explosion)

Lock on to that explosion, and fire!!

FIRE!!!

(compact explosions, Kick'n fire ball of death)

*inside joke

Oh, and for a small serious note... you're correct Mara, yet I believe that in today's world we should be able to avert such conflicts... especially from idiots that dare defy the ONE superpower left...

[ 03-18-2003 12:18 AM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Loban ]

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And we all know that since he has such a habit of defying us and the U.N., he's NOT getting out. Which leaves one option, unfortunately.

But then I'm starting to repeat myself. Peace is a wonderful thing, but where there is no respect between nations and no adherence to treaties and U.N. resolutions (voted on by several countries, I might add), there is no peace, whether we are at war or not...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dash Kelderon:[QB]You make a good point, Gray. But this whole mess could be avoided if BUSH would stop trying to finish his fathers work!!!

I don't know if you are aware of this but 90% of the acid rain that New Brunswick receives is due to the weather system that blows up the pollution form DETROIT and cities like that. So if, GOD FORBID, you do get hit with biochemical missiles, I would be directly affected. So I do feel that I am justified in makeing comments on this rediculous war![/QB]

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OK, just to address Dash in a bit more detail:

Yeah, you can say President Bush is "trying to finish his father's work...." and in a sense you'd be right. But do you know that every administration throughout the years after the Gulf War and Crisis was fully aware of Saddam's atrocities and danger, and wanted to excise him? We held back, after we freed Kuwait, saying "it's a civil war in Iraq, and not our business..." when we had the opportunity to continue. We thought of how that would look in the eyes of the world.. and made what I believe to be a grave mistake.

Now is the time to finish up. I don't know if the dreams of a federalized/democracized Iraq will come about (hey, the Shah tried to westernize Iran, you know) but if it does or doesn't at least we've gotten rid of a self-styled communist, bully and thug who takes altogether too much joy in torturing the innocent.

Not to mention the man may be closer than we think to making a nuke... he was way close during the Gulf War.

[ 03-18-2003 11:36 AM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Graysith ]

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The greatest threat in this arena is the type of particle. A common by-product is an isotope of iodine, but this has a half-life of eight days, and would decay fairly soon into something non-radioactive. Anyway, in any case, the effects are really dire only in an area close to where the nuke went off. Otherwise it decreases as you go outward from ground zero (well, all roentgen impact does); activity lessens the farther away these particles would travel as there are less of them per unit volume of atmosphere as they travel along.

Cesium would be a larger threat, as it's half-life is 30 years, so the particles would remain active longer, thus able to "concentrate doses" more "actively" over time. But it would take awhile to build up to a 450+ rem dose in any place other than fairly close to ground zero.

Now, I'm using Chernobyl as an example. When that baby blew it tossed a great deal of radioactive iodine and cesium into the atmosphere -- it was comparable to a small nuclear bomb. Yes a radioactive cloud went all over the place... but only areas within kilometers of the incident were directly affected. It spreads out as it goes, and the roentgen levels are thus reduced, absorbed if you will into normal background radiation.

Call Chernobyl a one-time bad thing....

The only way New Brunswick would be impacted, I believe, is if a US city in the path of the jet stream flow at the time would be hit with a good sized nuclear bomb. The jet stream varies immensely; the acid rain effect on New Brunswick is OVER TIME, as the jet eddies up and down. Our factories and such pump out the contaminants OVER TIME, which then flow up with the stream to NB... and our own east coast, I might add, with the vagaries of the jet. (I think this acid rain issue is being addressed somewhere by environmentalist groups and studies, and is at least not an issue I want to go into here.)

A nuclear strike is a one-time thing, unless multiple targeting is involved, and heavy hits as well. The only way strikes of this nature would get to us is with the use of ICBMs. Iraq doesn't have that kind of technology. North Korea does, but as Taehun has pointed out, the guy is all mouth (even though he makes me nervous, heh). I don't think they can create a nuke with the capabilities to strike in the US and create fallout of enough devastation to harm New Brunswick -- Iraq seems to have had a problem with sizing their nuclear piles. What they would be most apt to use is something hand-held, a small, limited nuclear device, which would be sneaked in somewhere by a courier. This is too small to do a great deal of long-term damage (I'm speaking in general, folks).

An American city would be targeted in this manner, hit... but the fallout would probably spread out rapidly due to the limited size of the bomb. By the time it would EVER get near New Brunswick -- if the jet was positioned that it would be, that is -- it probably would not result in any appreciable damage.

In my opinion, that is....

Chemical agents thus dispersed would likewise only affect an area within the immediate vicinity.

Biological... that is a greater concern, in my thinking... but it still is dependent on the jet stream and local windflow direction. And the dose necessary to get the disease, which would be dispersed as the particle bearing cloud spread.

[ 03-18-2003 03:00 PM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Graysith ]

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We need no War for that... I know the trouble of finding the bastard, but how would a occupied country wide search for him help either?

*hints toward Osama

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This I found out last night in a "Now" program with Bill Moyers and a guest Iraqi dissident who defected here but has ties in the US, he wrote (grrrr, can't remember) "Blood and Secrecy?" "Terror and Secrecy?" Grrrr.... "Something and Secrecy."

But, yup, we've tried to swat the fly and couldn't do it. We need a bigger flyswatter.

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http://www.iraqwatch.org/wmd/defeatinspectors.htm

[ 03-18-2003 01:40 PM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Graysith ]

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...but please go to this site and read very carefully.
http://www.iraqwatch.org/suppliers/timmerman.htm

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