Im confused about a couple things though..

*Chancelor Palpatine, secretly a Sith Lord, and a master at manipulation- Did he somehow orchestrate the need for the clone army as a ways to increase his own personal power? Im wondering if it was secretly Palpatine who placed the orders for the clone army. At the end when Dooku indicated war had begun, Palpatine/Sidious indicated that had been the plan all along. So was Palpatine maniputing the Trade Federation and the Jedi to fight against each other, so that Palpatine would be given power to resolve the problm? (the key being he was given 'temporary' emergency powers)

*Exactly what were the Sith- were they former Jedi, or a differnt entity all together? Palpatine must have tremendous power, but it was VERY odd that even when sitting before a group of Jedi, none could sense Palpatine's alterior motives...

I would love to read a story about who trained Palpatine. being a Sith Lord, he must be handy with a light sabre..

My hunch is in episode 3, Papatine will be exposed as being the Sith Lord, and will ultimatly declare himself emperor. I could see Palpatine being the one who will kill Mace Windu. (or mabey Boba Fett kills Windu, for revenge on the death of Jango..)

..Palpatine will have any remaining Jedi hunted down and killed, thus Yoada will escape in exhile to Dagoba, Obi Wan to Tattooine...

regards

And then in the Sith idea, I believe that they are mixed and matched. I believe Palpatine was a former, or it might be that he had the force ability but was taught by one of former Jedi heritage or something.

It actually all stated from a oucasted Jedi, so I guess that they are all former Jedi's or they all could be since it begun that way, and it hasn't actually lead down that way, but truly started it like that from heritage stand point.

Now, Darth maul on the other hand could have been picked up from Palpatine, as he wasn't known at all by the sight of Qui-Gon.

Palpatine is working both sides just like he did in Episode I to further bring himself to more power. Think of all the goals he has accomplished from playing both sides. In Episode II he has accomplished to have emergency powers, which I beleive will now bring him into power as an emperor, and he pretty much has control of 2 armies. By being in control of these armies he will force a war. Involved in this war is the Jedi. We saw that a lot of them were killed in Episode II, so think of how many more are gonna die throughout the course of a war.

To learn more about the Sith read the novelization of Episode I. You learn that the Sith was started by an evil Force user who decided to create a line of Sith. Only 2 at a time, and so Palpatine was just another apprentice of a Sith...

Yea...fun stuff....

Gee, lets see- all are played by the same actor, the Chancelor and the Emperor share the name Palpatine- why are people failing to make such an obvious connection?

One fan suggested that Palpatine is a clone of Darth Sidious, and is Sidious's puppet- and Sidious will eventually do away with Palpatine and assume control. I think they're the same person.

One fan who insists one example of 'proof' why Palpatine could not be Sidious or the Emperor is beacuse Palpatine was friendly, and 'showed genuine concern for Padme' Amidala's well being". His concern was as insincere ass kissing as Ive ever seen....Palpatine was the greatest manipulator in the galaxy.......

What im most eager to see is what happens when the Jedi realise Chancelor Palpaine is in fact a Sith, and how he will go about declaring himself Emperor.At that point, his 'nice guy' facade will vanish....

regards

Boba Fortuna

anyway, heres whats gonna happen for anakin to become vader:

Dark Horse comics dealt very briefly with this. There was a magickal race, called the Sith, which had VERY BRIEFLY been alluded to once holding power over the entire galaxy. They had thus then degraded quite a bit (think Roman Empire).

Anyway, there were a group of jedi who were not happy about the restrictions placed upon them as force users. They saw the dark side as being more powerful, and wanted to use it. Kicked out of the council and jedi school for this, they wandered about seeking a planet on which they could develop their own skills. They found the Sith, annihilated them, and took over their planet and what powers they had. (Which could be where the "Force Lightning" originates.)

Through the ages squabbling for power amongst the new Dark Jedi, over "who was gonna be top dog," resulted in huge fights among themselves. The leading Dark Jedi resolved this issue, then claimed them as being "Sith," (taking over the name of the original race they had destroyed) and proclaimed that from that point on there could only be two. The Dark side was too strong to allow any more than that. Too much fighting would always erupt.

Yes, there will be serprises in ep. 3, i can tell ya that much, just wait you see *acts as if he knew exactly what was happeing*

ok, let the truth be known, GL didnt want me to tell anyone (he's my good buddy afterall, and im totaly serious about that fact) but heres how it is. as it turns out, the emperer is really an evil clone of qui-gon jinn, and thats why anakin turns to the darkside, because he still holds that special something in his heart for the guy that saved him. And also, further more, darth vader isnt anakin, but rather a clone of obi-wan who decides to take up the fight that his apprentice believed so hardily in, anakin died in the depths of the nuclear reactor for the deathstar...

Oh, what the hey!

(ROTFLMAO I just love dry humor!)

OK, getting up and brushing myself off now...

Hmmm. So then in Empire Strikes back we should ignore the scene when the Emperor's shuttle arrives, and the guy who is obvious Sidious departs to join with Vader, who bows to him... (like he's going to bow to a mere Emperor, sheesh) ...? They say, "The Emperor has arrived!" and Vader goes to meet him, and then they walk, and it's the same durned half-hidden face they use in Episodes 1 and 2, the same cloak no less, hooded the same way, same voice and mannerisms.

And here's a direct quote from the Star Wars encyclopedia, taken from the "Palpatine" entry: "...Palpatine either seduced them to the dark side of the force, as he did with Anakin Skywalker, a powerful and promising Jedi who was transformed into Darth Vader..." then they refer to the novel where the cloned Palpatine appears: "...For a brief period, Luke accepted the cloned Emperor's training in the dark side..."

I think it's pretty obvious. Palpatine and Sidious are one and the same.

"...and it's the same durned half-hidden face they use in Episodes 1 and 2, the same cloak no less, hooded the same way, same voice and mannerisms."

your proof is that they look and sound the same. that does not prove a thing. it is merely evidence that they are related. the clone theory still works.

you also stated:

"And here's a direct quote from the Star Wars encyclopedia, taken from the "Palpatine" entry: "...Palpatine either seduced them to the dark side of the force, as he did with Anakin Skywalker, a powerful and promising Jedi who was transformed into Darth Vader..." then they refer to the novel where the cloned Palpatine appears: "...For a brief period, Luke accepted the cloned Emperor's training in the dark side...'"

Besides, the clone theory is just too... anticlimatic. Too predictable in its unpredictability. Far more impact that Palpatine is Sidious, far more dangerous a foe to thus reaize with 20-20 hindsight that he had been hidden in the middle of everything all along, like a lurking dianoga, quietly manipulating and watching from his vantage point.

i never said the cloned emperor didnt train luke, all i said was:"all that quote states is palpatine turned anakin and luke to the dark side (for a time). that in no way proves sidious and palpatine is the same person. in fact, it in no way even suggests it!!!"

please point out where it says i believe the cloned emperor did not train luke and explain what that has to do with sidious and the emperor

I think your just taking this a litle to far in your hopes that lucas will do something grand with him... cause he is, who he's always been, in fact, i bet you anything, the jedi already know he is sidious, but they have no hard proof, besides there feelings, and as we see in modern sociaty, even an admiral doenst accuse another admiral of doing something, so the jedi would just lose favor...

So hows about when Darth SIDIOUS tells the Nimrods...errr Nemodians that:

1. "I will have the Senate bogged down in procedures."

and:

2. "I will see to it that in the Senate things stay as they are."

How is a SITH LORD gonna bog the Senate down in procedures or make sure things stay the way that they are within it unless he has ALOT OF CONTROL in the Senate? Even if Palpatine was a puppet of Sidious's, that's a rather grand claim.

And have you noted that the clip on the neck of Sidious's and Palpatine's cloak is THE SAME? Go back and watch Episode I, you can see it. Now WHY THE HECK would a Senator feel the need to where the same apparrel as a SITH LORD? You could argue away the fact that they wear similar black cloaks maybe, but A CLIP?

The only argument that can POSSIBLY have any bearing is that one is the clone of the other. And I don't think is very likely, clone or not, that BOTH GUYS would be wearing THE EXACT SAME CLOTHING. They clone the people. Not their clothes.

There's proof.

By your words you contradict yourself: "if it was some sort of sith symbol, only a sith would know it.." If symbol of note to the "Sith" the clip might be, why would a SITH let a senator wear it???? Or even an Emperor????

Now, let us not beat any longer upon the poor horse, it is aready dead....

you stated

"why would a SITH let a senator wear it"

Unless by your suggestion that Palpatine is a sithlord is saying he is indeed Sidious.

Darksider, from hereon: any posts you feel are of inflammatory nature to you, please contact me in PM. NOT in a post. Them's purty strong accusatory words you are speaking yourself.

I also think many people are waiting with bated breath for some wild story twist to come out... which I personally feel will cheapen the entire storyline.

Sidious was 'The Emperor'? I thought it was 'Emperor Palpatine'?

Well, heh, it doesn't matter if they are the same person... as we think...

I mean, of course I did... who didn't...

Come on, Chewie's vocabulary was much better than Jar-Jar's...

AEIOU... and sometimes Y, I have heard...

Here is my theory. Syfo Dyas obviously did exist as a Jedi - of that there is no doubt. Obi Wan recognised the name when Lama Su mentioned that he had ordered the creation of the Clone Army for the Republic. Similarly, when Obi Wan reported this to Yoda and Mace they gave each other a slightly worried look, but never gave much of a response to Obi Wan.

In my opinion, Syfo Dyas IS Darth Sidious. He was once a Jedi, who like Dooku left the order as one of the lost 20 that we have heard about, yet not been given much info on. He was passed off as dead to younger Jedi by the council much in the same way as Vader was to Luke by Ben in ANH. Yoda and Mace know that he is not dead, but they are unsure of his whereabouts and are aware of his practicing in the dark side.

Ok, so now to the link between Sidious & Palpatine as there definately is one. I'm not 100% sure about the clone theory as there is too much cloning going on, however, it is a possiblity. The thing which strikes me is that the young Palpatine we see in the prequal trilogy does not have the same lumps and bumps on his face that he does in Jedi when we see his face fully. Explain how in just 25 years he would end up looking like that! His face is almost grey in ROTJ, and I dont believe that ageing alone would cause his face to end up looking like that! No, what I believe is that the Chancellor we see now is NOT the Emperor we see in ROTJ - That Emperor is Sidious, who, once his clone has done all the dirty work, assumes the role of Emperor Palpatine himself.

We have not yet seen Sidious's face above his mouth. Why would Lucas not do this if Sidious and Palpatine were one and the same? GL does this to make people think that they are one and the same, to make us think that Sidious is not showing his face because he is hiding his true identity.

The Jedi are aware of a dark force rising. Though, the "dark side clouds everything", so they cannot pin-point exactly where the menace is coming from, but I am pretty sure that they expect Syfo Dyas to be having an involvement with it. The connection between Dyas and Dooku would also explain as to how easily Dooku would have been prepared to join up with another disgruntled, power hungry, former Jedi. Exactly why Dyas and Dooku left the Jedi order is unknown, but I am sure we will find this out in Episode III.

So, in short, my theory is - Syfo Dyas left the Jedi Order and assumed the alias of Darth Sidious. He cloned himself on Kamino and altered his appearance slightly. He found a planet that was under naive leadership to place the clone on as a politician who could rise up through the senate and control the political masses through manipulation. When Sidious informed Nute Gunray and Rune Haako o fhis ability to control the senate, he was actually not talking of himself doing it, but because he controls palpatine's every move he has the ability to do so.

All will become clear in Episode 3, and I obviously dont know if my above theory is correct, however, I am pretty sure that Sidious and Palpatine are not the same person. I am almost definate that Syfo Dyas is Sidious.

This is actauly quite simple... With usage of the darkside, your body becomes corrupted, a very powerful dark jedi such as sidious would have, by the time he became the emporer, used the darkside a whole heckuva lot, this causes ones body to corrode, and become impure, frail.... that is one of the reasons vader wears the suit. I know we have all heard the story's about him falling into a lava pit, or something like that. WHile that may be true, its only half true, vader was very powerful in the force, much more so then palpatine, the reason he followed sidius so much was because, as all apprentices, sith or no, he was loyal. And also sidius provided him with guidance, something we see in ep.2 he greatly needed.

as for the whole jedi/clone/sidius thing, it very well may be true...then again, perhaps sidius is both palpatine and the jedi dude...(i cant remember is name)

anyway, yes, good points...

quote:

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Originally posted by Mara1Jade:[QB]Hmmm. Wasn't Sifo-Dyas a name that the council members recognized? Yoda and Mace gave each other knowing looks when they heard his name.

I think the "Qui-Gon is Sifo-Dyas" could be a possibility too. I'm just really not absolutely sure of anything other than Palpy and Sidious being the same.[/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Loban:[QB]Duh, great idea cat...

honestly, all one had to do was say they were syfo dyas... it is so simple... [/QB]

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"Once he had tricked various factions into supporting him for the postion of Senate leader, he moved quickly to consolidate his power"Star Wars-encylopedia Stephen J. Sansweet.

"The Commission for the Preservation of the New Order (COMPNOR) is founded as a social group, but receives covert aid and political power from Supreme Chancellor Palpatine himself. As a result of Qui-Gon Jinn's death and the Senate's use of Jedi as tools of their will, Count Dooku, a respected Jedi Master (former Master of Qui-Gon and former Padawan of Yoda), leaves the Jedi Order. He soon comes under the influence of Darth Sidious (Palpatine), who takes him on as
Darth Tyranus, knowing full well that training a replacement for Darth Maul would take far too long for his plans. Meanwhile, for unknown reasons, Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas goes to Kamino to commission a clone army for the Republic. Sifo-Dyas tells Prime Minister Lama Su that a template for the clone army, Jango Fett (personally picked out by Dooku four years ago), will be arriving soon. Jango, however, is contacted not by Sifo-Dyas, but by Tyranus on one of the moons of Bogden. Jango agrees to be the clone template, on condition of very good pay and that he receive one unaltered (no accelerated growth) clone for himself. He
goes to Kamino, as Sifo-Dyas had promised. The first batch of clones (200,000) begin their growth, and Jango receives his
unaltered clone, a baby version of Jango that he names Boba. He will raise Boba as his own son. Shortly after this shadowy plot begins, Sifo-Dyas is mysteriously killed. Dooku, meanwhile, vanishes from public view.
Darth Sidious charges Darth Tyranus (Count Dooku, a Jedi Master who was once Master to Qui-Gon Jinn and Padawan of Yoda) with the task of taking down the Bando Gora cult, which consists, at least in part, of Force witches. To do this, Tyranus decides to hire many of the galaxy's best bounty hunters to take down the cult's leader. On Outland Station, where Jango has tracked his current bounty, he is approached by the station's owner, his friend Rozatta, who tells him of the Bando Gora bounty. Jango takes the job, despite her warnings. The Bando Gora Force witches raid the Outland Transit Station. (Dexter Jettster has owned a weapon shop here, and, after the offensive, Dex will
flounder around until making his way to Coruscant.) Along the way, Jango teams up with Zam Wesell to work to take down the cult leader, and his ship, Jaster's Legacy is replaced by his new vessel, Slave I. Another bounty hunter is also tracking the cult leader, and when this hunter turns out to be Montross, Jango finally has his revenge on Montross for his mentor's death. At last, Jango confronts the cult leader, a twisted Dark Jedi, fulfilling his mission for Tyranus. · Darth Tyranus (Count Dooku) returns to his tower to discover his Master, Darth Sidious (Palpatine) waiting for him. Dooku reports that the search for the Prime Clone for Sidious' intended clone army is nearly complete. The galaxy's deadliest
mercenaries have been pit against each other, and Jango Fett, the sole survivor when the Jedi raided the Mandalorians on Galidraan, will soon be the victor. He tells Sidious of Jango's past, using information he has from personal experience and information he extracted from Silas through torture shortly before the meeting. As Supreme Chancellor Palpatine grows in popularity and the turmoil from the Trade Federation situation dies down, many groups
head about their daily travels to Coruscant."

Detailed information concerning information presented (it also shows the refrences)
Question 2:Exactly what were the Sith?

An ancient people, they were conquered by powerful dark-sid Jedi magic. In their 100,000-year history have come close several times to vanquishing the light-side Jedi. Dark Lord of the Sith originally, these were powerful Jedi Knights who used the dark side of the force. Darth Bane decided that there would only be 2 Dark Lords exisitng at a time. The title was passed down from generation to generation to the next. The mmmified remains of many of the Dark Lords are preserved in monumental temples on Korriban. Naga Sadow lived 5,000 years before the Galactic Civil War. He was a member of the elite priesthood of pure Sith blood. He was one of the first to be exiled from his homeworld for rebelling against the reigning Dark Lord of the Sith and was scorned as a criminal by the Repblic. Reason in mentioning him is that, the invasion of the Dark Jedi his type of practicing sith was an outlaw.
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