"Patriotism"

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Anakin

posted 02-10-2003 10:52 PM

Once again I bring up a topic that will go completely over most of your heads, but certain peoples make me want to ask. Is it unpatriotic to seriously question the leadership of those in charge at times of crisis (war)?

Any homosexual replies (mainly from Entaris and the like) will be cheerfully deleted.

arogers1102

posted 02-10-2003 11:05 PM

I am a CANADIAN, so I might be out of line in commenting on how your great country is run. But the fact remains that I will be adversly affected by any poor decisions made in this time of crisis. If President Bush pushes on going to war, CANADA might have to get involved, and if we don't I have to live in constant fear that a 20 kiloton NUKE is being sent directly at the US of A. I am only a 14 hour drive from NY, NY. I'm pretty sure that I would be in the blast radious! So I think that it is Our RIGHT to question the leadership of George W. Bush! That's just my opinion... but what do I know??? I'm just a CANADIAN EH!

Anakin

posted 02-10-2003 11:19 PM

Mara1Jade, please, do not stray from my original question. This is not a debate on whether this war is good or not, this is a simple question.

And arogers don't respond to her response from your reply to my question. I've got an itchy trigger finger, and I'll delete the post if you reply to her.

Graysith

posted 02-10-2003 11:24 PM

Excuse me, Arogers, but your train seems to have jumped tracks. The question was not necessarily in reference to the President of the United States, but to leadership in general, of one's country.

I find this difficult in the extreme, but I look at it this way. In the case of America, Bush was elected (do NOT go there, I am aware of the discrepencies around that election!) and IS our president. He represents the people, he has congress to put the "check" on his actions (yes he has final veto power and all that) but to me, he's like the captain of a ship. Especially in this time of approaching war.

We can argue and debate his policies... you truly cannot please all of the people all of the time... but when push comes to shove, we are Americans and he is our elected leader, and by basis of the office he deserves us behind him.

Then we can vote him out of office if we REALLY dislike how he has handled things during his administration. Or if during that administration he does something treasonous, or truly idiotically detrimental to the good of the nation we can impeach him; or if he commits a felony or something terrble like that. But otherwise, during that administration... better remember we are a peoples of a country, and he IS the leader of that country.

Actually I am more irked by policies of our government as a whole rather than toward Bush in particular. The exorbitant pay given to congressmen, and the various and sundry "loopholes" they can slide through; the "double" pensions and so on... the list is too lengthy to go into. But a lot of monies going in these arenas need to be allocated into other places that need it more: Medicare, education, and so on.

But that's a horse of an entirely different color.

arogers1102

posted 02-10-2003 11:24 PM

Mara1Jade, I'm not saying that America should sit around on thier "duffs" and wait... but to quote OBI-WAN "there are alternatives to fighting." perhaps having the U.N. step in a speace keepers is the first logical step... you know, send in troops from a NEUTRAL country. See what happens, if nothing else, they can act as spies and inform the world of what the hell is going on over there!

arogers1102

posted 02-10-2003 11:26 PM

Sorry ANAKIN, was replying before I read your post!

Graysith

posted 02-10-2003 11:29 PM

Oh yeah... and a 14 hour drive from NY puts you on average around 840 miles, or 1352 km. I don't think you're in the "red zone," and as for the threat of radiation, it depends on WHICH DIRECTION you are in tha 14 hour drive.

We're in the zone of the westerlies; if you're at all west of the longitude NY is on, you're probably safe from radioactive particles coming your way in the wind.

Anakin

posted 02-10-2003 11:30 PM

Ok, as GS pointed out, the issue over whether he was or wasn't elected should be put to rest. Everyone ought to know that there have been other men elected in the same predicament (lost the popular vote), and the fact is that Bush is who he is.

This question was aimed more at Americans, who know American history (I don't think there are any here), not necessarily Canadians who didn't violently revolt against a King who they were not allowed to question.

But, keep the opinions coming, I think it's a pretty important issue.

Graysith

posted 02-10-2003 11:31 PM

ALL RIGHT.

THIS MEANS WAR.

ANAKIN: YOU ASKED FOR OPINIONS. YOU CANNOT DICTATE WHO SHALL REPLY WHAT TO WHO. If Arogers wants to reply to Mara, HE CAN.

I thought you retired anyway.

Anakin

posted 02-10-2003 11:31 PM

And also as GS pointed out, the question was not about George W. Bush, it was a very general question.

Anakin

posted 02-10-2003 11:33 PM

Oh be quiet. This thread isn't going to turn into a debate, I asked a question, and wanted to hear answers. The second MAra replied with her outburst of emotion the original topic (the question) would be dismissed for this new debate over whether war is good or not.

As I said before, anything leading to a debate will be deleted. All I want is my question answered honestly by you all.

Graysith

posted 02-10-2003 11:36 PM

Oh hush yourself. Enough with this little Hitlerism.

The question itself warrants debate, sheesh.

And I apologize to EVERYONE for the comment in the first post referring to "all this probably going over most peoples' heads," which was rude in the very least.

As was associating Entaris's replies with homosexuality, sheesh. How gay is that.

arogers1102

posted 02-10-2003 11:38 PM

I love all the bickering in here! Anyhow, there is a fine line between leadership, and dictatorship. President Bush wants to lead the USA into war, correct? I think the minute he actually declares war, he becomes a dictator. Unless you are a HIPPIE, you ain't dodgin' this draft SUCKA!

Graysith

posted 02-10-2003 11:40 PM

Yeah, but you can't vote a dictator out of office without getting shot!

And going way back to Arogers first answer, I don't think UN peacekeepers are going to be worth diddly. Saddam would just kick them out of Iraq, too.

[ 02-10-2003 11:45 PM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Graysith ]

Anakin

posted 02-10-2003 11:42 PM

Once again, and this is the last time I'll say it: all you need to do is answer the question, if you want to argue about it with someone do it in an email. Everything else will be deleted from this point on. (even what you post, GS)

If you want to argue on whether or not people should question their leaders, feel free to do so, but I know that none of you are capable of doing just that, but you have to relate it to the real world and real time and argue over this war and Bush, well don't. I don't care if you think I'm being rude, I'm judging on prior engagements with you all. You either can't discuss anything serious (you know who you are) or you cry when you recieve a rebuttal to your statement (won't state names). Therefore, THIS THREAD ONLY REQUIRES AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION IN POST NUMBER ONE.

arogers1102

posted 02-10-2003 11:46 PM

a little off topic, but LOBAN told me that ENTARIS wouldn't be joining us too often until school is done... too much homework or something... that's just what LOBAN told me. And speaking of LOBAN, where the heck is he???

Graysith

posted 02-10-2003 11:53 PM

I retract anything I said in this thread, and will say no more.

I'm sticking to role play... and science, where truth is verified and upheld by fact.

[ 02-11-2003 12:17 AM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Graysith ]

Loban

posted 02-11-2003 12:16 AM

The simple answer is no...

It is not unpatriotic, because the question is the very heart of patriotism... the love for one's country...

In fact... it is our given right, as Americans, to disagree with our leadership...

Anything to the contrary would be unconstitutional...