How is it Clinton's fault? Who put American troops in Saudi Arabia? George Bush, in accordance with UN Resolutions. Should we say to hell with the UN and get out of there just to make bin Laden happy? Of course not. And you certainly can't blame the Israel-Palestine mess on him. Blame the Arab nations for not being able to live next to a Jew. They caused what it happening over there. The majority of Palestinians could care less who they live with as long as the violence stops.

Most of what Clinton did in regards to using military force was through the UN. It was the UN that had sites in Iraq bombed, it was NATO who acted in Kosovo to end genocide. Yea, let's all blame Clinton who if he hadn't said anything, even more deaths would have occured in Israel, and Kosovo, and Iraq. Give me a break. If you're gonna blame someone, be sure you know what you're saying.

Of course, I can't say Clinton did much for NASA, but at least he didn't cut the shuttle flights to 3 a year. And at least he didn't make it so the federal government only gave NASA the money to operate the ISS, not add on to it so eperiments can actually be done (the reason it was even made).

Blame BUSH! He cut taxes, didn't expect a war, and is trying to cut costs anywhere he can. What kind of idiot cuts the only program that researches the Universe, and will one day be our way off this earth after we kill it? Of course, he is religious and figures "God will provide" and screw science.

Clinton made a big deal out of us going abroad and "helping" as he called it but trust me I'm living abroad now and the rest of the world sees us as meddlers and Clinton as the worst of all - there have been many people here at school that say we brought it on ourselves - we force OUR ideals on other people - which is true - by going in so often and using force to get people to do what we want while all the while we let our CHILDREN KILL eachother we have shown the world that we are hypocrites - we got involved in Iraq under Bush for economic reasons - which everyone could understand - but the world does NOT see things the way we do as for as the rest - Clinton gave us a bad name - here in Europe and especially in the Middle East - my friends from there have often been surprised that I'm American cause I'm not an overbearing monster which is how they see Americans - we havce to face the facts of how the world sees us and we have to admit why. They don't want us involved in thier wars - as we inevitably take sides as far as they are concerned and great if we are with them but if not we're the bullies - Clinton really did ignore his own people in the favor of others who didn't want his help - don't want anyone's help - they are content to kill each other off - or at least solve thier problems thier way. Yes Bush has cut taxes and spending but remember the budget was passed before the war began - he has to cut costs for it somewhere - would you rather it be the Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, and Welfare that people depend on NOW for thier day to day existence, or the Education system so that in the future we have no sceintists - cause that is generally one of the first programs cut as it is one of the most expensive in the schools, or cut a program for a year when a year isn't going to make as much of a difference there as it will in these other programs - one lost year in school is a lost year of children, one year without medical care or food, clothing and shelter is death for a years worth of people that don't have to die. What other program is there that gets enough to cut without completely abandonning but NASA - I'm not a big fan of cutting NASA - I know it's important to our future - but there is no where else - you can't cut schools, health care, or the only money some people have to live on, there is the Environmental programs but that would be worse than NASA as it affects our daily life already, he could cut Military but of course being that costs are being cut for a WAR that doesn't work - there is NO WHERE else with a big enough budget! Cut home defense - I think not, cut road work - already done - that's in the state's hands and has been for decades, other transportation costs - already taken care of privately, by hte states and locally the Feds help almost zip with that... Look at the devisions of the federal budget and tell me what aspect of our daily lives do you want to loose - what can you do with out - then think of what a cronically ill person can do without then a school child - what can they do without in school, then our environment what part can we deal with not surveilling - then see what is left in the budget to cut - taxes can go up - but not right away - you have to wait for next year's budget - so April or May - I forgot which - Budgets are fixed and when catastrophe strikes something has to go to make room for what's needed more - and you have to think of what aspect one year won't make a big difference is - or start growing money on Trees - Where would you make this Cut? If you can find somewhere else to make it that won't immediately alter the lives of your citizens then criticize but above all the President's JOB is to think of his Citizen's first - Clinton didn't do that - we have plenty of evidience that he didn't - we have dead CHILDREN to show that he didn't - the US can't be everyone's big brother all the time - we need to let the rest of the world deal with thier problems on thier own for a bit and heal our own people - heal our children, protect them - stop our own poverty before we condemn that of others feed our own starving families before we shake our finger at other nations for not feeding theirs! The US needs to stop playing Hypocrite and really look to the needs of it's own people - Clinton sure didn't he tried to cut Welfare and Social Security, Bush is - he's sees where his nation needs help - and we do and he's doing something about it - he's pulled out of Isreal and yes it's gotten worse there but our school children don't have to worry anymore that thier classmates are going to come in shooting and kill them all - schools are better equiped to deal with it teachers are better changed - and the law that did that Bush signed while Clinton said it was the State's affairs - even after Columbine he refused! Bush is doing what American needs him to do for Americans right now - he'll get to teh rest but he needs time and America needs to heal first.

Clinton didn't do anything about the school shootings, why? Because the power to create and regulate schools is delegated to the states. The ONLY reason the federal government steps in is because the states do a crap job of regulating schools.

It is stupid of you to prefer thousands of people to die over maybe 30 children in the US. Clinton saved countless lives in using the United States military do carry out what the UN and NATO ordered. Say we didn't do a thing, then we would be ridiculed for having the largest army in the world and not using it to save lives.

Most of the countries we intervened in didn't ask for our help - we and the UN FORCED it on them! The Statue of Liberty talks about immigration which we have alot of still - and freer than alot of other countries at that even with our Quotas - it does not talk about going to them and using our army - which is one of the biggest critiques that we do have such a big army - it doesn't instil confience that we will help in other nations but fear that we will decide we need to help and force our idea of Help on them!

Remember when you put in things on Canada they are our CLOSEST Allies still - maybe not in war but in trade and other such stuff - htey don't have the military we do but they are our Allies and they think similarly their government is very close to ours you can't judge teh world's view on only them or Europe and then apply it to the Middle East, Asia, the former Communist Block, Africa or any other area whose veiwpoint on life drastically differs from our own!

Graysith as for the Banks and such - that is considered private sector it isn't in the Federal budget and the federal government does not have the power to do what you ask - it's unConstitutional.

About the Cold War... errr, how can you say it was our foreign policy that led to it? This was a direct power struggle between the former Soviet Union and the United States, which developed bit by bit after the Bolsheviks took over the country after the 1917 Revolution, flowering mainly as Communism first took hold under a very Marxist Lenin, was promulgated by the iron hand of Stalin, and continued under Kruschev, etc. You must understand Russian history: this was a country which had long been under the Mongolian Khanate, and when finally getting out from beneath their overlordship only found themselves under an equally iron rule of 600 years of czars. Serfdom, which was ended in Europe with the Middle Ages, wasn't even BEGUN to be eradicated in Russia until 1861. At first Communism looked wonderful, especially since it really stressed the climb from darkness and the spread of technology. Stalin's "electrification of the USSR" and so on, heh. Technological growth in the Soviet Union was a jealously guarded secret from the world in general; EVERYTHING was secret behind the Iron Curtain. Advancements which paralleled our own were hidden from their own people, where ours were pretty much open to the entire world. (This is in particular regards to the Space Program and the "race for space.") It was the Soviets who, by their veil of secrecy, voicelessly began the Cold War. They announced their achievements AFTER THE FACT, and the biggest one of those was their being the first to launch a satellite into space, and then a man. With a policy of anti-capitalism running the show, combined with utter secrecy that leaked out technological advancements, it was no wonder we feared they were working on a nuclear attack against us. THAT is what the Cold War was all about, and how it began: two big dogs seeing who would end up being the one with the loudest bark. Thank God it is over... at least for now. I certainly hope the cooperation that is flowering between our two countries continues to grow.

As for the people in the countries where UN action is brought in remember they are the ones that suffer the most for that action and often they agree with thier leaders and don't want them taken out of power, often people in dictatiorships are handfed news they don't see another side of things and you hear something long enough you believe it and so do these people - if we could intervene without them dying and bring immediate relief then maybe they would thank us someday but we bomb we kill them and we give them no aid until its over and we've "won" that is why we are so hated - it is our way of doing things more than the fact that we do them - as they see it we don't help we take away thier life lines - thier government who they are taught to love.

Graysith: First look at the way we treated the Native Americans - we took all thier land and FORCED them to follow our culture and live our way or live on the Reservations with inadequete food, and shelter, and look at how many of them died because of it. Then look at Isreal - the Isrealis want our help the Palestians don't but we force them into the talks too - they would rather we stay out but we do go in and take sides like they were always afraid we would. Texas is another example - when they wanted our help we didn't give it to them when they didn't we tried to add them to the nation - they wanted to be independent - and they were for a while after and happy with it only joining us for economic reasons ( ie no food grow in a dessert - or very little and thier population was soaring) Vietnam - we entered to protect our economic issues - at the request of the French who had already granted them independence thereby had no right to go back in and the Vietnamese didn't want us there - they were ready to just talk about it and settle peacefully - and probably Communist. There are more - at least where the PEOPLE REMEMBER it that way.

I am not quite certain what you are saying here, but you entirely missed my point. I DID say it is EXTREMELY difficult to STEP BACK AND VIEW CIRCUMSTANCES OBJECTIVELY. Only then can the true issue at stake be shaken from the distractions of heated emotions involved, and once identified only then can steps be taken to eliminate the problem. Apparently those you speak of/with cannot seem to take this major step, as cannot, unfortunate as it is, quite a few of the peoples of the world.

I'll have you know, I am in high school. I know what kids are like. I know it more than a teacher would, so stop acting like teachers know all and see all when it pertains to the students.

You said kids in Elementary school should fear. What are you talking about? Little Rock was the only bad school shooting at an elementary school, and who's fault was that? The parents. You say bullying isn't the problem, what rock do you live under? If kids weren't bullied, students wouldn't want to bring a gun to school and teachers wouldn't have to intervene. I can recall one other shooting at an elementary school, and that was because a kid wanted to show off his dad's gun. Again, the parents's fault. It seems a lot of parents can't put values into their kids, and create a relationship where if the kid is bullied, he'll tell the parents. So, you're a teacher in trainign who wants to seem as if everything in a student's life is your responsibility, IT IS NOT ALL YOUR RESPONSIBILITY! Kids have Parents.

--if we could intervene without them dying and bring immediate relief then maybe they would thank us someday but we bomb we kill them and we give them no aid until its over and we've "won" that is why we are so hated

What are you smoking? Are you not aware that from the first day of bombing in afghanistan, we have dropped food to the people? Have you heard of the American Red Cross? What do you think they do? Did you not download the article I uploaded FOR YOU?

Ugh, give me a break. The Indians. That started when we were all british. Please, forgive me for my great great great great grandfather's actions. Like I had any play in that, like anyone alice today did. You can't blame one generation's ass play on another just because it's in the same Country.

Israel and Palestine. Are you dense? Both the Israelis and the Palestinians want peace, some more than others. We did not force them to come to peace talks, we can't force them. We invited them, they came. You can't base your belief that they didn't want to come on the beliefs of the fanatics. That's like saying America is satan because Usama bin Laden thinks it.

Texas. Texas couldn't make it on their own. They would have rather joined the Union then sit there and eat dirt. They have a reason for joining, it's obvious, don't act liek they didn't want it. Sure, some didn't want it, but you can never make anyone happy. Personally, I would rather have left them independent, then Bush wouldn't be President.

Vietnam. Our ideals are in no way related to Communism. In Vietname we fought for human rights. Get over it.

Again, what are you high on? 12% accuracy in the Gulf War. Are you aware that we won that war? It lasted about 90 days. We could not have won with 12% bombing accuracy. In fact, most experts would agree that that is the second best bombing campaign we've done, the first being Afghanistan.

Ya know, if the French president has a problem with us not using his troops, who gives a damn. We have a big enough army to not need his, and he should realize that, and get over it.

to make this post more important looking and sounding good I shall now paste apart of "full metal jacket"

this has nothing to do with space (excuse the bad words, I didn't come up with this script)

Master Gunnery Sergeant HARTMAN walks along the
line of
blank-faced recruits.

HARTMAN

I am Gunnery Sergeant
Hartman, your Senior
Drill Instructor. From now on, you will speak

only when spoken to, and the first and last
words out of your filthy
sewers will be "Sir!"
Do you maggots understand that?

RECRUITS
(in unison)

Sir, yes, sir!

HARTMAN
Bullshit! I can't hear you. Sound off like you
got a
pair.

RECRUITS
(louder)
Sir, yes, sir!

HARTMAN
If you ladies leave my island, if you survive
recruit
training ... you will be a weapon, you
will be a minister of death,
praying for war.
But until that day you are pukes! You're the

lowest form of life on Earth. You are not even
human fucking beings!
You are nothing but
unorganized grabasstic pieces of amphibian

shit!

Because I am hard, you will not like me. But

the more
you hate me, the more you will
learn. I am hard, but I am fair!
There is no
racial bigotry here! I do not look down on
niggers,
kikes, wops or greasers. Here you
are all equally worthless! And my
orders are
to weed out all non-hackers who do not pack
the gear
to serve in my beloved Corps! Do
you maggots understand that?

RECRUITS
(in unison)
Sir, yes, sir!

HARTMAN
Bullshit! I can't hear you!

RECRUITS

(louder)
Sir, yes, sir!

Sergeant HARTMAN stops in front of a
black recruit,
Private SNOWBALL.

HARTMAN
What's your
name, scumbag?

THe examples I gave which everyone contested are examples others have given to show why they are afraid we will inforce our ideals on them. Again I'm trying to put across the view point of others - of those who areharboring this Anti-American sentiment we need to deal with. I'm trying to show what they think of our country - and what they first think of when asked about our history and policies.

As with what people see to be the problem with us helping in the Isreali Palestinian peace talks is that htey fear we will manuveur them around to do our own good and to reach our own goals - again view points of Non-Americans - mostly from the ME on this one.

Again I have not talked at all about the WTC - I'm putting points out towards where we need to go in the future to prevent ANOTHER group from trying the same thing - how we need to deal with other nations so that they realize we are not out to dominate the world which some of them REALLY think.

As to why the Cold War peace talks are seen as good by these same people when our involvement in Isreal is "bad": simply because we were talking about peace between our OWN natin and another WE were having problems with - ie we weren't moderating but making the compromises ourselves in order to change our own lives and nation for the better - we were the ones who would have to live with what we decided and no one else (besides the Russians but they had an equal say).

the Crusader not asking for help attitude thing: Yes that is what we were doing - that is NOT how THEY SEE it - again it's a question of our intentions versus what the world PERCEIVES to be our intentions. They saw it as an insult to thier ability and the WANT to be more involved - Terroism doesn't just affect the US - it affects the WORLD and they WANT to HELP WITH thier ARMIES, many nations have been upset and insulted by the fact that only Britian was invited to send arms, THEY don't SEE it as not being risked unnecessarily they SEE it as the US acting big and tough like we don't NEED the rest of the world - and that really bothers alot of people - when it would be so simple to just say ok send whatever help you think would be good - send us what you will and just thank them for what they offer, they just want us to gratefully accept thier help the way tehy did when they needed bailing out in WWI and WWII - they want to give back to us what we gave to them - they can't give as much and that bothers them to but it hurts thier pride more to be completemy rejected like the were and puts them off WANTING to help in the future - it makes pratical enemies out of our Allies.

the quote on the quote - i was refering thier to the size of our Army quote. The fact that us having a large army looks like a threat to other nations more than a place to turn for help. Not the Saving those that don't want to be saved.

They last quote you put in: Ok I think I did miss your point the first time through however you also missed mine in making that point as I had been talking about emotions from the beginning and other peoples' veiw points on our Foriegn Policy. Nothing i have said for the most part is based on fact as we Americans would know it but on the "facts" that they SEE in our actions often given to them I'm sure through Propaganda of thier governments against us - though they probably wouldn't see it as propaganda. the point that I have been trying to make from my first post on is that we need to listen to what others think about our foreign policies and improve that in thier eyes in order to improve our relations with their nations and people. Basically we need to take a second and STOP THINKING like AMERICANS but try to think like those people of the nations where we send our troops and other such aid. Think about what hte are told think about how they may see things - think about them first and then decide if our action will - in thier eyes - help or hinder them more - if we can say that yes they will SEE our help as help then proceed as planned but if we can say that No they will SEE our help as destruction of thier way of life then we need to rethink our methods and our intervention - if they are happy with life as it let them stay that way - Veitnam was not a Human rights issue nor was it a demand for help by the people it was a lets stop Communism from spreading even though these people are ready to embrace it willingly, as was Korea - and those are two events the world won't forget - they refuse to - and now when we step in for whatever reason they think back to that - especially in nations where propaganda is highly used by the governement and censorship is commonplace - and they worry we are trying to do the same in their country. We have to be more aware of that as a nation - especially the government.

Anakin - I know that teachers don't know all or see all - remember I'm a teacher in TRAINING which means it wasn't THAT long ago that I was in HS - and both my sisters still are as are many of my friends - I know what kids are like too - please don't start calling me Mam or anything like that - I hate feeling old I already do when talking to anyone still working on a HS diploma... Teachers will never know all or see all but we do NEED the tools to help where we can - with what we can - that is what these bills give us. I did not say kids in Elelmentary school SHOULD fear - but they do - they don't distinguish between the teens that do this and the kids their age - I've had enough 6 year olds tell me about these fears to know that it does happen. Yes there was only one bad elementary shooting but it wasn't the only one on our list I can assure you that though it is much less common it has happened. I also did not say the bullying is not a problem - or if it sounded like that I didn't mean it too - what i meant was it is not the problem addressed by this bill. That problem was the lack of teacher resources and rights to deal with problems in the schools like Bullying and violence. Teachers couldn't deal with it before - not effectively - there were no resources available to do so nor was the formation - the education on the subject - required in every state - there were states where teachers didn't need even one psychology class - and trust me that class is INVALUABLE when dealing with troubled children! Federal Law now requires at least one psych class for all teachers as well as formation in dealing with suspected Abuse, eating disorders and other such problems kids have to deal with - in short if we see a problem now, we KNOW HOW to deal with it and we are ALLOWED to approach the student to do so - it didn't used to be like that everywhere! I know everything in my students' lives is not my respeonsibility but LEGALLY everything they do while in my classroom I AM responsible for and while they are there I want to have all the tools possible to help them with whatever problems they may have, believe it or not some kids will tell thier teachers things they wouldn't tell anyother adult - especially if that teacher makes herself available to the students to do so and keeps an attitude that makes her approachable to her students - in short makes them feel comfortable approaching her about problems in or out of the classroom (and i use Her here because I am a woman not to say men could not do the same thing or have the same relationship with thier students). I know the kids have parents - I try my best to spend at least a little time talking to each and every parent of each and every child in my care, that is important too, parent teacher cooperation - and in so doing I see that some of the children have parents that aren't there for them and they are looking - especially at that young an age - looking for someone they can turn to in need - an adult they can really trust and teachers can fill that role too, thier are kids in the HS I went to - "kids" I graduated with that still go back to talk to that favorite coach or teacher on a regular basis, "kids" that didn't have good relationships with thier parents but who found a teacher that was open and that they could relate to - we can and will do all we can for our students in the classroom and after that it is up to the parents but we won't turn our backs on kids who come to us later either - even calling our homes emailing whatever - and all we wanted was the right to more tools to do our job with - we have that now thanks to this bill and while i can't do anything about what happens in my student's homes (barring abuse which I HAVE to report any and all suspicions) I most certainly can and will protect them while they are in My Classroom.

On the other quote see my answer to Graysith on the same one.

same as on the Indians and Isreal.

On Texas - look a little closer on thier War of Independence - they wanted US help for the War - we said nope - got too many problems of our own right now - then jsut as they were about to win anyway we sent a tiny tiny group to help them and then claimed that they were a part of the US now cause we helped they said "Yeah right" (paraphrased) and were an Independent nation for almost 30 years before the Texan Government ran out (basically) of ways to support its people and signed a treaty to join the US as the Umpteenth state provided all these crazy conditions which weren't important enough to remember at the time I was taking US History but that is still a generation as a Free Nation when we had tried to force them into the US right away saying we helped with a tiny droplet of soldiers so they had to join us in return. And yeah the eventualy did cause they found they couldn't make it on thier own but they almost didn't have a cnance to try it - we were jsut having some Custer and Indian problems around the same time so didn't bother so much with them (and I think we knew they would eventually decide we were right and they needed us )

I think you need to check on the basis for our entry in to Veitnam a little more - there was a good reason it was so protested and it's not cause the Flower Children were against Human Rights but against using arms to force economic policies. the government might have claimed that allowing North Veitnam to take over the governance of South Vietnam - which they were discussing at hte time more than fighting - and allowing all of 'Nam to become Communist was saving the South Veitnamese from the "human rights infractions of Communism" ie all property communal and other such ideals (for them) it in fact was because we were afraid of teh Dominoe Affect and the spread of Communism - and it was not the only conflict we dealt with in the same way, around the same time, for the same reasons.

The 12% accuracy rate comes from recently released perviously confidential government reports - it is the ratio of Number of Bombs on target to Number of Bombs dropped basically the more mistakes we made the more bombs we dropped until we took out the target - however the rest destroyed schools and daycare centers and other civilian sites. Yes we won hte war and yes it is quite possible to win a war with only a 12% success ratio - you just have to drop a whole LOT more bombs - you win by taking out all you set out to take out and doing it faster than the other guy - how many bombs you use does not factor into that equation. And I don't deny that is was a very good campaign - none of our Infantry ever had to actually set foot inside Iraq - I'd say that was quite successful - but it doesn't mean it was the most accurate. And others are more prone to remember the civilian sites that were hit by that other 88% of the bombs dropped.

Your statement about the French is exactly what has gotten the international community so miffed - they call it American Snobbery - if they want to help let them help - it doesn't hurt us and it makes them feel good - it's like accepting that horrid piece of wood as a birthday gift from the kid next-door you don't need it but it's the thought that counts so you accept it with a smile and hide it somewhere on a shelf in the back of a closet - you don't insult the poor kid by saying no like that.

In fact, I don't think we have EVER IN OUR HISTORY actually begun a war. It's all been defensive moves on our part, or ONCE AGAIN at the behest of others. Please enlighten me (with facts, thank you) if I have missed something somewhere... hmmm, I don't recall us sending in people to colonize others either. And may I point to Puerto Rico, who I believe this year is being given YET ANOTHER CHANCE to VOTE IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY whether or not they wish to become our 51st state. I don't see us just overpoweringly incorporating them into our United States.

In closing, once more, all I can say is: tell your friends to acquaint themselves with American history. Look to the facts of WHAT WE HAVE DONE, and get their collective butts out of their self-created morass of "What if...?" Sheesh, the world would "what if?" itself to death if someone didn't prevent it from happening, and whether the world likes it or not, oftentimes that mediator has been us with the COMPLETE SANCTIONS of the UN and NATO.

As for our ideals, and forcing them on others, we never do that. Please, explain this to your foreign friends in france, our ideals are simple. They consist of three basic rights that should be given to every single human being. Those are the right to life, liberty (freedom), and the pursuit of happiness. We believe every single person is allowed to live. Every single person is allowed to say how they feel and express themselves, we believe every single person has the right to make themselves happy in life as long as it does not interfere with someone else's rights. THEY ARE SIMPLE. If those people cannot undertsnad those they should move to Mars and try to breathe the air there. Please, get them to get on your cpmputer and explain to me what is wrong with those 3 basic rights that they hate so much.

We comply with UN Resolutions, as should they, since they are members. If they are too stupid to look for the facts rather than believe popular opinion coming from the ignorants in their society, then, again, they should move to Mars and clear the land here for people worth listening to. Tell them if they care so much about us, learn our history. See what led up to our Revolution, and understand why we hold those rights so close to us. Everything we do is to spread these. We fought communism becuase it was a huge contrast to those. It's not hard to understand.

So, nonAmericans are afraid we will force our views on the Palestinians and Israelis? WHO CARES. Our views on humanity are far better than anyone else in the world except maybe the buddhists, and if they all live by those 3 basic rights I explained, everyone would be happy. Except for one thing, as expressed in our Declaration of Independence, people have a right to form their own government, based on their beliefs. We NEVER force our beliefs on either of those groups. We want peace there. Ask your friends if they're ticked at the new Saudi peace plan. Do they care that the Saudis want to force their views on the people there? Or are they smart enough to realize even the Saudis want peace there. I'd expect the former to be true.

BTW, in the peace talks we have, we don't tell them what to do. The President opens the forum to the two leaders to talk and decide what is going to happen without the fear of one trying to kill the other. Yet again, it's simple.

Have you noticed we have the strongest military in the world? Why on earth would we want another country's troops there when we can take care of it? From a strategical point of view, it's much more easier commanding your own troops, when you know what they can do, and you have full authority over them than it is commanding troops from tons of nations who might not always be able to handle what you put them to and who you can't have full authority over. Simple again. They should be able to understand those facts. We used a british submarine the first day of bombing to shoot some stuff, that's it. The onlt other foreign aid is in the peacekeeping forces now in place there.

If we stop and say no to every time we go in and the people there may see us as hurting them, those people would no longer exist. We go in to save their lives, if we didn't they would die. So they complain afterwards. The only thing I see wrong with what we're doing is that we are not taking the recognition we deserve. We need to stop giving the recognition to the litte guy and come out and say "WE DID THAT, STOP HATING US YOU STUPID BASTARDS."

The reasons behind Korea and Vietnam are simple. Communism contradicts our basic beliefs. And at the time, if we had allowed the spread of Communism, we might not be here today. The whole of Middle America could very well be communist if we let it spread, and then we would have them at our border, ready to his us with nukes. Again, the people you talk to are oviously ignorant to the facts.

I was in elementary school while Clinton was President, and not once did the teachers not have the ability to step in when they say something wrong. So, why do you think teachers couldn't? Only and idiot wouldn't step in when they see a kid is planning to do a Columbine. The reward from stepping in completely overshadows anyone's thought about taking legal action against the teacher, although none could be taken anyways. According to me ( ), if you are a teacher and you see the parents are not there for the student, it is your responsibility, for the child's sake, to step in and inform the parent's of their lack of good parenting.

About Iraq. BLAH! Not possible to win a war in 90 days that way. We don't have an endless supply of bombs, and according to you, it would take more than we've got and there's no way we would win it in 90 days, because we'd have to stop and make some more bombs. That's the reason we're waiting a few months to take out Saddam, we're outta our good bombs and gotta make some more.

People point the finger at us cause we are the big guys the easiest ones to do so to... No we didn't go into Ireland - they've calmed down on their own now but when I point that out everyone else points out that the part of Ireland in question is part of the UK and so in the domain of our "partners in crime" - hte British, that we are perfectly happy to let Elizabeth deal with her people herself cause we know she agrees with us.... But thier countries - well we didn't feel the same about thier leaders so we did what we wanted.... Yes misinterpretations, but real ones, and common ones apparently in Eastern Europe and the Middle East and something we need to figure out a way to deal with, there has to be a way to clear our name, maybe not waiting until thing get so bad - maybe helping thier governments a bit more before the problems start - who knows but as a nation we do need to try SOMETHING!

You are right Communication is the key - but not just with the people but thier leaders - we have ignored some countries in favor of others in the past - just about every president has met with British, French, and Japanese leaders but other nations not so much - and in some nations it's the leaders who give the info to the people - why not approach them and try to open some Friendly channels? I'm sure we could do it if we put our minds, and budgets to it! Instead of buying more outdated weaponry which costs MORE than teh more hightech stuff - simply because of materials used - we could up the hightech which helps us more anyway and use some of the rest on TALKING with these people we almost never do.

The gov reports I mentioned - again sorry not to clear on that again- these were US declassified documents of which I speak - the military classifies War documents for a set number of years to keep our enemies from discovering what we are doing during the war - obviously a good idea - and the Gulf War ones were just declassified last year - so they are official Pentagon Documents that give this figure, - sorry couldn't place the word "classified" the other day - it was right on the tip of my fingers but wouldn't come to me....

Ummm War we started - nothing that really affected the rst of the world - technically we did start the war of Independence by not being placid calm little colonial subjects to old Georgie Porgie... But that was only for us - we can't lhelp it if the French liked the idea and copied us decapitating thier poor king....

I think I pretty much answered your other questions above but the why must we one... We shouldn't be the only ones to do so but someone needs to be big enough to take the first step - I ask you WHY NOT us? Why not take that first step to improving international relations, why not try to smooth things over? Maybe if we take the first step - approach first others might notice and follow - heck the French followed us into Revolution and Democratic government, the Russians accepted our peace talks in the 80's why can't it happen again. We do have a stable nation and we have the time to look at both sides, some of these people are still struggling to survive - why not approach them first when we can instead of waiting for them to make the first move towards understanding?

Oh the French thing - remember they have been impacted over and over by terrorists - htey want to help in the peacekeeping now - why NOT let them and take some of our men out to continue elsewhere - why not let them take on some of the work from which they are benefitting - we aren't the only country that has been affected - let the others do thier part - make it a worldwide effort - and when it's all over maybe the world will be more solidly united - but someone has to start that, WHY NOT us?
BTW the French weren't offended by our involvement in saving them in WWII - just one man (Charles De Gualle) with a very loud voice that once claimed that he alone was France....

Anakin - again it is not FRENCH people I speak of - I'm in France true but I don't actually really know any French people over here - and they aren't the ones complaining - it is the people from the former USSR, other former Communist (and still dictatorial nations) and the Middle East of whom I speak - all quite recent immigrants.

The ideals you mentioned are not what comes to peoples minds in the countries I have meantioned when they think of the US - instead they think of greed, money, Hollywood and other such things that they have been allowed to see - ie the darker parts of our society...

Who cares if we force our views on Palestine and Isreal - I'll tell lots of people do - and the ones most worried about it are From Palestine, Jordan and other nearby nations. They most certainly care - and they don't believe that our ideals are the best in the world - that is a very egocentric statement - you may think they are but others definitely do NOT!

Us having the strongest Military in the world - the fact that we HAVE a military like this when we have had no really military threat in years is thier BIGGEST COMPLAINT! No we don't need others to step in - but the NEED to do so - they are just as affected as we are and they need to have a hand in thier own future - the troops they offered and that were turned down were for the Peacekeeping force there now - which was supposed to be an INTERNATIONAL force - the US could even benefit by sending some more of our troops out - say to the Philippines where they are begging for help and letting the French come in and help in Afganistan right now - keep the special task force in charge of hunting out Al-Queda (sp?) but let some of the peacekeepers go help where they are being asked for and where there is a real need right now!

"WE DID THAT, STOP HATING US YOU STUPID
BASTARDS." This would really stop people from hating us - or just throw the proverbial match in the haystack! It is patience and understanding that is going to help our image - it is extending the hand of friendship again and again even when it is slapped back at us that will eventually turn these attitudes - we need to show other that we are not nor are we trying to be the big bad wolf.

On Communism - no if you actually read the doctrines of communism it does not in any way shape or form contradict the principles of Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness - it jsut adds that the society should act in a way so that these are assured equally to all members - ie that money does not bring these things - so everyone should have the same things - that they should function together for the benefit of all - something humans really can not acheive - Utopia would be the perfect world - no war, no poverty, everyone happy and doing what they want without hurting others and still living to the fullest - no worry about money nothing like that - and Utopia - written by an American, or a Brit I forgot which - an Anglophone in any case - is about a COMMUNIST society - there was even a famous society of AMERICAN writers who named thier communal property Utopia in the 1800's and ran it as a Communist community in the middle of Penn. There have been many such Communist communities in our very own nation - abd they worked well for a time but the natural flaws of humankind prevented it from working in the long run - that is the flaw with communism - the very human flaw to want more and more. Communism simply apposes capitalism - and the threat was a threat to our big business - but not to the American worker - look at American history before the right to strike and look at the number of communist movements we had way before Russia (communism was "invented" by a Frenchman btw) the deal in Russia - why it succeeded there and not here first was simply because we had a wealthy class to oppose it and they were the ones with the money to sponser politicians and in Russia that was not the case with the Monarchy. Communism was not a threat - it does not contridict our values but our business who thrive because of capitalism were afraid to give that power to thier workers and since well they pay for the campaigns the politicians followed thier fears and that is one big reason for the Cold War!

Elemntary school under Clinton - you make me feel OLD... that said yes teachers had the right to step in to a certain extent before - but we have the right to step in much further now, as long as we have that little peice of paper saying we are certified that is... We can't still tell a parent how to parent still, but now we can send a child to consuling BEFORE consulting the parent and without the more obvious signs we have had to wait for in the past, that said not many parents say no when asked but again the depth of the "signs" that a problem exists was still a problem... Now that said - being able to RECOGNIZE these often subtle signs is also a problem and depending on the state one is certified in the amount of training could have differed from NO psychological training required to a decent level - now that is a MAJOR problem - if you can't identify that a problem exists then you can't solve it... you even said, "and not once did the
teachers not have the ability to step in when they say something wrong." the key part in that phrase is "when they SEE something wrong." Seeing the problem is half the battle and not all teachers had the correct tools to do so before. I'm going to ask you what state you are from - as if it is Cali, NY, or Penn - which are the highest rated 3 in educational standards - your teachers WOULD have had the correct training but in Alabama and Florida - the worst 2 in the ranking (2000 national school system ranking by state) it would be quite rare that they did - and it would definitely have been going above and beyond what they are required for the degree - not so with this new law.
"According to me ( ),
if you are a teacher and you see the parents are not there for the student,
it is your responsibility, for the child's sake, to step in and inform the
parent's of their lack of good parenting."

I agree - I would if I could but not yet having my certification I still have to watch kids I KNOW are being abused go home with thier parents simply because they did not walk up to me and say "Padmé, my mommy hits me, this broken wrist that I had last month was from when she threw me down the stairs cause I spilled some milk." And even if the child does come up to me and say this I have to have her give permission to me to write it down and then sign it that those were her exact words before I can even think about calling Social Services - so you can see where teachers power is severely limited - and all that because of a lack of a piece of paper...

On the millitary - yes I can understand the detterent factor - but it is a hard one to explain - and i have yet to figure out an explaination that others would accept so if you have an idea on how to explain our way of thought in keeping such an army that I might have over looked after so long in another culture I could try to translate it and see if that does open any doors as you put it for some of these others....

umm yeah after posting the complaints of others intially I did try for the most part to address what you 2 had said - in a way and as a way to keep the conversation going.... So yeah i wasn't trying to be arguementative but instead put forth these complaints and then see if we could come to a joint agreement on what our nation should do to better our image with the world as a whole. I'm glad that we have been able to do so - lets just hope that our government will be able to handle what the world is asking of them in time to prevent another catastrophe.

Now, this is an example of not knowing the facts, and can be applied to both the terrorists and the euro trash. Ever heard the phrase, "We the People...?" That means the government of the United States is THE PEOPLE of the United States. If they want to attack the government, they should at least have the brains to attack the ones who did what they don't like, which IS NOT George W Bush, and especially not the civilians in the WTC.

Why I wanted you all over there to see that show is because it shows you that the attack was an attack on civilians. However much you or your friends may think the US Government needs to be bit in the ass, 9/11 was nothing like that bite. Well, in a way it is, because it was an attack on the People, the People also make up our governement. So, instead of attacking just the civilians, or just the government, when you do what they did on 9/11, you attack every single citizen, and non citizens living here who love the country just the same.

I feel bad for the people who die Iraq because of our actions through the UN, but the idea behind it was to get the people in an uproar and cause some sort of revolution. Yea, our country pushed it. But you have to look at Saddam. If he cared about the people of his country, he would let the UN inspectors in to check everything out, and leave it open for them to return whenever they feel the need. I feel bad for the people who die everyday, but it is not our fault. Saddam Husein is at fault. He is causing the hurt of the Iraqi people. There is no doubt about it. He has the power to help them, and he does nothing.

We aren't in the same situation. The terrorists wouldn't stop if we stopped supporting Israel or took our troops out of Saudi Arabia. They then would attack our way of life. Our naked lady magazines, our beer, our food, our sports. They would want every last one of us dead because giving in to the fanatics makes them even more powerful in the muslim world. The President does not have the ability, like Saddam does, to prevent another attack, there is nothing he can do. And currently, the UN and the US are looking at ways to change the sanctions on Iraq to stop targetting the people, and only target the ones in control, since obviously the Iraqi people aren't able to overthrow Saddam.

You're right, the A-Bomb was a completely stupid idea. Blame Truman. He made the final decision, he was apparently unable to predict the Cold War. So, blame Roosevelt for choosing him as his Vice. Who can we blame next for doing something that caused something in the futures, unbeknownest to them. Ignorance is everywhere in the world. Look what Hitler did to the Jews. A Jew would be ignorant to think just because the German government of the 1940s did it, that the government of today would too.

You cannot blame me, or any other American for something like Hiroshima. I didn't decide to do that, so how can anyone bring that up and say "Look what we did to the Japanese!" I didn't do shit to them.

Yes, you're right, going after the people is an effective way to go after the government. But I feel, in contradiction to many in the past, it is not the way to do things. All I am asking is that your friends realize that there is NO difference between the people and the government. The people make up the government. In a true Republic, you can't attack one without attacking the others. I want them to admit that it was an attack on the American People, some of which make up the government. SOME.

Do your friends really think the attack on the WTC was worth it? Is it really going to change our policy? No, it's not. It only made us strike back harder than ever before. It's called logic. Your friends are in college, they should know what that means. Of course in Europe, especially in France, logic isn't something you see a lot. Yea, yea, yea, they aren't all euros, but living in France can infect your brain. It's just like if I watch a movie with only british accents, I come out talkling like a brit.

None of them live in a restricted society where they can't learn facts. The facts are there for everyone to see, you have to use logic to understand them. Apparently they don't search for the facts, but rather jump on the Anti-American bandwagon and dish oput the same BS as all the rest of them.

GS and I have been able to shoot down a lot of what you've said are the reasons they feel the way they do, how can we do that if they're right? Sure, you have made rebuttles to what we say, but we always shoot it down again.

So how the HELL is WTC like Hiroshima? There was no war. No military was involved. THIS WAS THE ACTION OF A BUNCH OF FREAKING MADMEN.

I'm really sick of seeing people trying to "justify" WTC, to make it allright. IT WASN'T. Call it a random act of violence that affected thousands.

And EXCUSE ME, but how do you think we CAN get the civilians in to help without the military going in first? Unless they just want us to sit back and twiddle our collective thumbs while they all fight their own particular battles, kill each other off, and let us help clean up afterward. WHICH WE DO. AND HAVE DONE. BUT there are times when we are ASKED to come in with the military and assist in eradicating those forces who would hold others under their thumbs.

HOW DARE THEY SAY THE GOVERNMENT OF A COUNTRY THAT STANDS FOR FREEDOM AND PERSONAL IMPROVEMENT AND LIFE AND LIBERTY... HOW DARE THEY SAY THAT THE GOVERNMENT OF A COUNTRY WHO HAS OPENED ITS BORDERS AND ITS ARMS TO IMMIGRANTS COMING FROM THE VERY COUNTRIES WHO ARE BITCHING AND MOANING!!!... HOW DARE THEY SAY THAT OUR GOVERNMENT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM DESERVED THE SLAUGHTER OF THOUSANDS OF IT INNOCENT CITIZENS, all at the hands of a raging, moronic imbecile with a warped sense of morality and COMPLETE IGNORANCE AS TO WHAT THE TERM "RELIGIOUS" MEANS.

Please tell these people that the enemy they are obviously fighting against, or railing against, is WAR and human GREED and IGNORANCE. NOT US. WE ARE NOT THE ENEMY HERE.

You can tell these people that, quite frankly, I for one am being tired of being seen as the world’s scapegoat or “bad guy.” No matter what we do, someone will complain. No one appears to realize that with all fighting going on in the Mideast, we have NOT actively gone in. We are sitting back. WHERE DO THEY THINK THAT WE MIGHT INVADE THEM? HOW DO THEY DRAW THIS CONCLUSION? WHAT IS THE LOGICAL FOUNDATION FOR THAT SILLY FEAR?

These are issues that need to be addressed first. Otherwise no matter what I say, no matter what I try to present in explanation and “defense,” it will be ignored beneath the blinding blanket their own SUBJECTIVE and quite unfounded FEARS… and not truth. Fears based on jealousy and their OWN mistrust of others. And should that false notion continue due to their persevering and stubborn rejection of facts I have offered over and over in these posts, and those shown by Ani and Mara, then Ani’s parting sentiment goes for me as well.

I hate to sound like my thoughts are jumping, but I keep reading the UTTER IDIOCY IN YOUR POSTS!!! ...and can't help but keep on editing my own reply.

Talks about shallow thinking?!? "Blame America for the A-Bomb!!!" "Blame the government who is its people, so thus the people made the A-Bomb!!!" If ANYONE HAD SAT UP AND TOOK A FEW NOTES IN SCIENCE they would realize that Germany was very nearly the one to get the bomb first... and trust me, Hitler would have used it in an even more horrendous manner. This was the guy who killed MILLIONS OF INNOCENTS... and against whom we sent our military and defeated him, OR HAVE THEY FORGOTTEN THIS?

THE MORONS YOU ASSOCIATE YOURSELF WITH NEED TO DISCERN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT CONSTITUTES AN ATTACK ON A NATION AND WHAT DOESN'T. WE HAVE NEVER... NEVER...! AS A NATION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ATTACKED WITH MALICE AFORETHOUGHT. NEVER. We have retaliated, but only when we were damned sure it was justifiable. If these countries are so anti-American, and hate our government so damned much, then LET THEM HAUL THEIR PEOPLE OUT OF IT. Give up THOSE JOBS THEY HOLD TO AMERICANS. GIVE UP THE SEATS IN OUR EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS TO DESERVING AMERICANS. GET THE HELL OUT.

Am I beginning to wake up anybody over there? Hmmm... seems a touch wee on the hypocritical side that on one hand they scream and holler and moan about "big bad USA," while on the other they come running here whenever they have the chance. There was just an article in our paper today about a family who had immigrated here in 1987 from EASTERN Europe because they were fed up with Communism. We have PLENTY of Bosnians and Armenians and Russians and Ukrainians and Lebanese and Kuwaiti and Jordanians and so on living here, you know.

And all this crap about pride... well, you know what they say about it going before a fall! Misplaced pride is what is at the root of all problems today. "Oh, the poor Muslim, how we have hurt his pride by hitting him with whatever (and utterly false, I might add) evil he perceives us to be hitting him with.!" Again, "boo-hoo-hoo." WHAT ABOUT OUR PRIDE? IT'S A TWO-WAY STREET, SISTER. But time and time again we put aside our pride TO HELP OTHERS.

The obvious fact which remains here is that at the bottom of it all lies the slavering worm of jealousy. Jealous that THEIR country isn't a world power. Jealous that THEY don't have the freedoms which we do. Jealousy that WE COME TIME AND TIME AGAIN TO THE AID OF OTHERS, which makes them feel inferior because they had to depend on us for help. JEALOUS THAT THEIR OWN PEOPLE SEEK SHELTER AND A BETTER LIFE WITHIN OUR BORDERS. PRIDE AND JEALOUSY. THEY ARE THE REAL CULPRITS.

And now, Padme, I close with this. I suggest you sit back and take a good, hard look at what you have been writing... and when you can begin sounding like an AMERICAN again, we will welcome your continued thoughts. But NOT the repeated weak excuses and falsehoods and illogical notions that your associates in your "quasi-school" are apparently spoon-feeding you.

WHY ON EARTH DID THEY GO AFTER INNOCENT CIVILIANS INSTEAD OF OUR GOVERNMENTAL OFFICIALS?

I *know* why these guys went after the civilians. Dude, they want every single American dead because ALLAH supposedly told them to do so.

Iraq is a big piss bucket. Saddam's special police kill anyone who speaks out publicly against the regime or anyone he doesn't like. Now, why would the people speak out against him when they would be killed? They wouldn't, it's better to support him verbally and condemn the US as he does, so they can live, than to condemn him and die. Once again, all it takes is a little logic.

I only called the idiots who have no common sense, no logic, and big ass egos euro trash. Those are people who think they know all, but never look for the truth.

You have accepted the blame or Hiroshima, well howdy doody! Let's ship you to Japan so they can kill you for something you didn't do. Raise your hand if you agree!!! *raises hand*
STOP AND THINK FOR ONE FING MOMENT. You were not alive when Hiroshima was bombed. You didn't not say "drop it." You had NO HAND in bombing them. STOP CLAIMINg RESPONSIBIlITY. When you do that they expect us all to do that, and then they blame us, the ones who didn't do it. Apparently you claim responsibility for all the Indians dying. Hell, if ya wanna go back even more, why not claim repsonsibility for the extinction of the Neaderthals? It's ok to say "I'm sorry it happened." But it is not ok to say, "I'm sorry I and my people did this to you," which it what it sounds like you're saying.

*SIGHS*

In that case, this whole line of thought is a moot one and nothing will ever be resolved, will it? IT TAKES TWO. TWO. The streetcar goes in BOTH DIRECTIONS. The only thing that will stop the hatred of some is our death as a nation. The only thing in the case of others is... I don't know, as so far there hasn't been anything logical to respond to and attempt to resolve. But these people have GOT to get off the "me, me, ME!" line of thinking, root out the facts, and do THEIR part to reach out and work with us as well. Lord knows we've been giving them the chance to do so myriad times throughout our history.

One final thought, Padme. While I am sorry for the grief over the loss of your cousins in WTC, and can fully understand the driving NEED to find a REASON for such a loss - everyone always needs a reason when someone dies! - I just cannot agree that the reason here was either justified or good or anything else.

If anything it should be uniting you with our line of thought, and not against it, which you appear to be doing. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY IN HELL we can come CLOSE to comparing WTC disaster with Hiroshima... BUT we can to what preceded that event: PEARL HARBOR. We used the bomb on Nagasaki and Hiroshima to END a war. The Al-Quaeda and Taliban IDIOTS used the WTC attack to START ONE. Don't even try to tell me it's reasonable at all, in any manner. It was the intentional act of a coward and a bully.

GS - yes Isreal does have a big army - but they have been at war and openly threatened for years - of Course they would have a big army it would be stupid for them not to in thier position!!!! They need to use it just about everyday to protect THIER people - I don't see ours working so well as a detterent - people just laugh that we have it but are afraid to use it unless our victory is a sure thing!
With the A-bomb - Hitler was close - but we didn't use it on him - we used it on Japan who hadn't even thought about starting to work on one - or if they had thought about it they didn't do anything about it - Noone would be complaining so loudly - or bringing it up so much if we had used it against him - a fact which they openly admit - even if it would have meant the destruction of thier own countries in the process - as long as he was stopped!
The people I spend time with over here are NOT Morons they have a different perspective on the world then we do - and our culture definitely comes out as trying to dominate - I have no problem finding an American movie over here - when was the last time you've seen a Russian Film in the states - or music for that matter - we do have an overbearing dominating style about us Micky D's is everywhere - I bet you've never even heard about Hippopatamus! We have been brainwashed from Kindergarten to think our nation is the best in the World - American Kids are really brainwashed - we don't teach about other nations or other cultures until Jr high - these kids over here (French Kids not those from the dictatorial nations like the other adults in my classes) can already tell you all about the cultures of not only European nations but the US (our history, and pop culture), and South America, and Asia by thier equivalent of 2nd grade! You talk about American pride - American pride is overblown and Egotistical - we as a nation have way to much for our own good - that is why we are hated - we pushed our culture on everyone and everything not like it is seen as bad - what happened to being a melting pot? We certainly aren't acting it anymore! The people here aren't spoon feeding me anything - I came here not to escape a terrible life like many of them but to expand my knowledge of world customs and ideas - to break out of the Brainwashing Americna schools love to give thier students - you will not find any other nations that have thier kids pledge thier Alleigence everyday, or if you do they are rare, very rare! I don't want to think like an American - I left to get out of that rut - A year abroad does do wonders for you - it does open you up - there is much more good stuff out there than just the USA! I think one of my British Friends here said it best when he was asked the first day of class what his nationality was he said that his passport was British, that he grew up in England, but now lives in France? but that he was niether French nor British but simply a Citizen of the World. He's not hte only one I've ever heard say that - and ya know what - both people that I've heard something like that from are 2 of the smartest people I have ever met - we are ALL Citizens of the World - that is what is importatn - not American or Birtish or Iraqi or Isreali or any other puny nation - governments don't last forever - countries don't last forever - we can only hope that Humankind and our beautiful Planet Earth will last together until our Sun blows up and the Solar system must start afresh - that is the ONLY importance at the end of the day!
I also never said that the reason I found for WTC was a GOOD reason - but it was a reason that can't be denied - it accomplished that task very well and while it wasn't good or justified it was a reason and it did work - you can not say it didn't - otherwise why are our BOYS over there fighting and risking thier lives?

Mara - they did go after our Government too - you can't forget the Pentagon or ignore that the other Plane might have and from what they have figured out probably WAS heading for a government building before the passengers brought her down - but also notice how little publicity the Pentagon has gotten in comparison - I think they knew it would. And No I didn't forget Pearl Harbor - but we did have other ways - and Pearl Harbor did get us off our Butts and into Hitler's Face so in the end some good was achieved through that war - but it wasn't from Hiroshima and Nagasaki!

It’s what WE STAND FOR that will in the long run bring about the globalization your friends are seeking: personal freedom, freedom of speech, justice and liberty for all. THAT is what America is all about, and when eyes finally uncloud from jealousy (you said it yourself: “we as a nation have way too much for our own good and that is why we are hated…” SHEESH THAT IS A STUPID THING TO SAY! Yeah, we have a lot… BUT GAINED THROUGH AMERICAN TOIL AND WORK ETHIC AND INGENUITY AND TECHNOLOGY! May I point to Japan in regard to this? There they are, quietly Westernizing, quietly growing, and no one is hollering at them. BECAUSE THEY AREN’T AS BIG, AND AREN’T ASKED FOR HELP FROM OTHER NATIONS AS WE ARE.)—but I digress: when eyes can uncloud from the jealousies which are running rampant, they will sit up and notice that it will only be through a true democracy/republic that the entire world will eventually unite as one nation. That is what a “republic” is, which is what we ARE.

We were emplacing a MILITARY ACTION. We so far have managed to eradicate many second- and third-tier leaders in the Al-Quaeda, and are paving the way for the safety of the returning President of Afghanistan, as well as the setting up of their own government and assistance in rebuilding the ravages over twenty years of war have wrought.

Do what? I must ave missed something. Here's a way to show you the first testament isn't always right, "an eye for an eye" Is it working in Israel? Are they getting information about others from the dead palestinian shooters they kill? No. They never spot and think that if you cathc the bastard alive, you can interrogate him. Neither Israel or Palestine are doing enough to work towards peace.

Our movies are everywhere, McDonalds is everywhere....it's called capitalism, ever heard of it? The reason we don't watch Russian films is because we have a certain taste. Not many of us like subtitles, and frankly, foreign movies don't have the quality ours do.

Ever person is America has the ability to learn about the cultures of other nations, if they want. There's a difference between French schools and American schools. In America, kids aren't raised to be snobs, and not in search of the facts, like the french.

"we pushed our culture on everyone and everything not like it is seen as bad"

When? When did the American government force other nations to have McDonalds?

"- I came here not to escape a terrible life like many of them but to expand my knowledge of world customs and ideas"

You were taught in America. It was that "brainwashing" of American schools that made you want to learn about other nations. Stop being stupid. You didn't have to run from your country, be proud.

I say the pledge every day, when I do it I pledge my life to the Republic and the ideals of the American Revolution and the Enlightenment. It does not say, "defend America or die, fag"

Ever heard of nationalism? I've got it, forgive me, and ask your british friend to forgive me. The reason I love this country so much is because of what I said before. After those ideals, people are in charge. PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES, especially during the cold war, much of which you point to saying we're unfair. In hindsight, yea, it wasn't right, but at the time that we do things to help people, it's not a stupid idea, it's the only available option. You're stupid and so are your friends if they think we Americans sit in our living rooms plotting to take over the world and kill the idea of human rights.

"I also never said that the reason I found for WTC was a GOOD reason - but it was a reason that can't be denied - it accomplished that task very well and while it wasn't good or justified it was a reason and it did work - you can not say it didn't - otherwise why are our BOYS over there fighting and risking thier lives?"

It did not accomplish the task binny and his bussies were hoping for. They though we were soft. We sucked it up over and over after attacks. They though we wouldn't act this time (they didn't believe the buildings would fall), but they were wrong, and not he's pissing in a hole in the ground and wiping his butt with rocks.

"Anakin - I didn't say you had to like the French - just recognize that the people of whom I speak are NOT French, Something which you haven't done until just now."

Oh shut up. I've realized it over and over, that's why i clarified the term "euro trash."

Please, ask your buddies in your French class to visit America. They'd be amazed at how nice we really are.

"CALLING them Euro Trash is the Big Know It All Egotistical Attitude you SAY you hate in others. "

Not really,if you read my earlier post, you'd know euro trash is all people who don't dearch for the truth when they have the ability.

People don't say, "I'm sorry I ran over your friend" when you didn't. They say, "I'm sorry your friend died." You say the first one. You say "I'm sorry I killed your people with the a-bomb."

Guess that's why your classmates are lacking in logic and the ability to think for themselves.

But further regarding immigration...

We have to think in terms of the space we have and the jobs we have. We can only be the land of the free when everyone has job opportunities to support themselves. We already have a large number of jobless and homeless people. Who wants to add to that count? All idiots in favor, raise your hand.

And contrary to your belief, America is NOT the hardest place to get into. Canada is even more difficult. Remember we also have to make it more difficult because we DO offer so much to our citizens. We CAN'T be lax and just let everybody in, or else those priveleges will be diminished. Even lost.

"...yes Isreal does have a big army - but they have been at war and openly threatened for years - of Course they would have a big army it would be stupid for them not to in thier position!!!! They need to use it just about everyday to protect THIER people - I don't see ours working so well as a detterent - people just laugh that we have it but are afraid to use it unless our victory is a sure thing!"

And WHY do you think that Israel needs a big army and we don't after the events of 9/11? HELLO, we were attacked by terrorists because they don't agree with the freedoms our government provides us. Because Allah told them to kill us (yeah, right). The second we trim down those forces, the second every other one of these whining nations who are jealous of our freedoms will come stomping in. Laize Faire tactics don't work Padme. Those type of tactics were the ones we had before WWII. We still got attacked even then.

READ YOUR HISTORY BOOK.

We have a big army. We are the wealthiest nation in the world. We protect others. We support Israel, which some HATE. We have a responsibility to protect those who cry out for help. Last time I checked, when you are given a big gift the best thing you can do is put it to good use.

"...When I said sent Civilian helpp in first I meant before it got so bad that the military was needed - we tend to ingore people until it gets to that level and that doesn't help anyone at all..."

You talk about the fact that the other countries hate us and don't want us in their affairs. In the same breath you THEN say that we don't pay them any attention til it's bad enough to warrant military action. HELLO, IF WE STAY OUT OF THEIR BUSINESS THEN HOW CAN WE KNOW IF THEY NEED HELP???? And first of all, we don't just go barging in to help countries. They have to ask us. If you are all hot and bothered about us shoving our lifestyle on other countries, then WHY do you think we should go parading in offering our help if we haven't been asked? Wouldn't that be shoving ourselves onto them?

And WHY would we send our military out to die if victory wasn't possible? This is stupid. You don't parade in somewhere just because you have an army. Army is filled with PEOPLE, LIVES. No use to foolishly squander them.

"American Kids are really brainwashed - we don't teach about other nations or other cultures until Jr high - these kids over here (French Kids not those from the dictatorial nations like the other adults in my classes) can already tell you all about the cultures of not only European nations but the US (our history, and pop culture), and South America, and Asia by thier equivalent of 2nd grade! You talk about American pride - American pride is overblown and Egotistical - we as a nation have way to much for our own good - that is why we are hated - we pushed our culture on everyone and everything not like it is seen as bad..."

Oh Bull shit. I work in school systems, they talk about TONS OF DIFFERENT CULTURES. WE INCORPORATE OTHER CULTURES INTO OUR DAMN MUSIC THERAPY GOALS AND SESSIONS. I've worked in Prekindergarten schools that had SPANISH TEACHERS. And judging what your pals seem to THINK they know about Americans, I don't think you should be arguing that the knowledge they DO receive is all that great. It's a bunch of hogwash. And if they don't want our damn McDonald's and such, THEY DON'T HAVE TO EAT THERE NOW, DO THEY?

And the REASON cultural stuff is often more emphasized in highschool is because talking about cultures requires a higher cognitive awareness for students to FULLY APPRECIATE the cultural diversity. You are a teacher in training, I would HOPE you have heard of concrete-operational and higher level thought. You don't get past concrete operational until around middle school. And that's when your abstract thinking begins to truly kick in, and you truly understand cultures for what they truly are.

And again, there is plenty of culturally diverse stuff in younger grades.

And your reason for WTC can be denied because it's a load of crap and isn't logical. Any person that truly believes that is just sick.

BUT NO. Instead of logic and nonviolence, a madman, reacting in jealous rage, chooses to strike out of the shadows like a coward. Chooses to kill as many innocent Americans as he can in what can't EVEN be considered a pre-emptive strike. There is NO other reason that would come anywhere close to "justifying" this -- and I really hesitate to use the "j" word here. It was an act of war, and a childish one at that, meant to be as hurtful as possible.

You can COMMISERATE with your Japanese friend. You can say "I'm sorry that this happened." But, as none of us were alive then and didn't vote those guys into office, it doesn't make a bit of sense to apologize for actually DROPPING THE A-BOMB. You didn't do it. Don't claim the "responsibility." You don't have to like that we dropped the a-bomb. You don't have to agree with it. You can empathize with your friend. But if s/he expects every American to APOLOGIZE for that, then I guess s/he needs to start apologizing for Pearl Harbor.

And OH YES. Since WTC was such an "effective" way to get America's attention, WHAT IS WRONG WITH ALL THE OTHER COUNTRIES WHO HAD PEOPLE IN THOSE BUILDINGS? It's a good bet there were some French people there, as well as many other nationalities. DID THEY DESERVE THAT? If you ask Bin-Laylow, he'd tell you yes because they don't see anything wrong with the American society and take part in it.

And the attack was NOT effective for what these clowns wanted. They are TERRORISTS, they wanted us to crawl into a little hole and FEAR them and let them run amok in the world. WOULD YOU LIKE FOR US TO DO THAT? TO TAKE OUR MILITARY AND CRAWL INTO A HOLE AND LET THE TERRORISTS ATTACK ALL THESE OTHER WHININING COUNTRIES?

I don't think so.

*crosses arms, taps foot, waiting....*

"EXCUSE ME AGAIN but how long have you been out of school? We haven’t “forced” the Pledge of Allegiance in our schools since I don’t know when. This is left up to individual states to decide, I believe, or maybe the schools. It’s not a federal law or anything."

I've been out of Public school for 4 years now - and yes even in HS we were forced to stand and say it every morning - you have no idea how pointless we all thought it was but we did it anyway - by the end it was just so routine that no one paid any attention but I have had kids at work come up to me very upset that the internationals didn't do so - granted they were young but they really believed everyone in the world did that everyday - to OUR nation!
"And what’s wrong with pledging our love to this country? It IS our country? Don’ t the French go around saying “Vive la France!” "
there is nothing wrong with it when it is a personal choice - schools shouldn't however make thier students do so everyday - they should be given a choice. And No the French don't - only when attacked or when winning the World Cup - and then it's more for the team then the nation, they don't actually learn any nationalistic bits here...
"I am extremely saddened and disturbed by your statement about our country brainwashing its young people. Where on earth do you get this idea? For the past ten years AT LEAST that I know of, the biggest push in American schools is STRESSING DIVERSITY. Learning to RESPECT the diverse cultures of which we are made… "
You said it right there of which we were made - not how the people in other nations live now or any of that just those that make up our own nation as if it were the most important of all.
"(you said it yourself: “we as a nation have way too much for our own good and that is why we are hated…” SHEESH THAT IS A STUPID THING TO SAY! Yeah, we have a lot… " in that I was talking about pride and pride alone - hte egocentric pride I've seen way to much in other Americans that makes it harder for them to reach out and get to know others and other cultures NOT a part of our nation the way we all should.
As with the Citizen of the World thing - I mentioned what he said exactly - however he was only dealing with his passport and current residence - since he has also lived in South America the US Africa and parts of southern Asia - I'd say he has a pretty good claim on it. However I meantioned this to point out the fact that I would rather consider myself a citizen of the World than just an American.
As for the WTC - I already said that I didn't think it was a GOOD way - but that it WAS an EFFECTIVE way - it did just that - I don't agree that they should have done it but it worked the gov responded you can't deny that they did!
As for the Babies in China thing - ummm killing them like that is completely illegal in China - people do do it but if they are caught they can and are charged with murder - and that carries the death penalty - the problem is they have a hard time catching people who do so.

I know that I am now being subjective in using this as a rebuttal, but in that experience I discovered what is out there to be taught, and I can't believe I'm the only one IN OUR ENTIRE COUNTRY who would go this far, SHEESH. THAT'S why we have EDUCATIONAL STANDARDS WE ADHERE TO, in ALL SUBJECTS so our students will be taught FACT and TRUTH in as OBJECTIVE a manner as possible.

It's a state thing, I seriously doubt that they forced you to do it. I think you're lying to try to make a point because you're losing this debate horribly. In my school, there is a moment of silence for people to pray or do whatever they want, then here is the pledge, or you don't want to say it, stand up and shut up. Then we have the anthem, and we say standing for that.

I may be young, but I'm not too young to know that in the past four years people were not facists in love with their country, beating thier kids for not saying the pledge. While my principals are facists, they don't force us to do that. If anything, the pressure to say it would be more now (during a war) than in the past four years.

"As for the WTC - I already said that I didn't think it was a GOOD way - but that it WAS an EFFECTIVE way "

No it wasn't. If their objective was to catch the attention of our government, then it was an effective way. But their objective was god knows what, but it sure wasn't to get Afghanistan in the middle of a war and to lose their (binny's) home. It was effective in catching the eye of the US Government, it wasn't effective in whatever binny had planned.

"As for the Babies in China thing - ummm killing them like that is completely illegal in China - people do do it but if they are caught they can and are charged with murder "

Ani - going back to your posts before my last post that i didn't get to aznswer yet:
Isreal - I didn't say that thier having a big army and fighting constinently was HELPING them or WORKING for them but more people understand WHY they have an army like they do because they ARE still in the middle of a war - my statement was meant to mean that in contrast to us where we have a big army but have NOT been at war they have a big army cause they ARE at war - the two go together much more logically for most people than big army without war or threat of war.
As for Foreign films there are A LOT of quality foriegn films but they are practically impossible for us to find - Taxi is a great example! Never heard of it - didn't think you would have. It's the funniest story about this taxi driver who supes (sp?) up his taxi so it can go race car fast and installs all these features for the passengers who inevitably get sick riding in it - he can make it fly for a little bit by driving off a steep enough ramp etc... And there just happens to be this international high tech crime thing going down in the city where he lives and his girlfriends brother works for the European equivalent of the CIA the two of them use his super fast "flying" taxi and end up beating the bad guys by simply confusing them in a car switch (they repaint the taxi to match the diplomat's car and stuff - in anycase it's great it's Hilarious - but you'll never see it or the further adventures of this awesome Taxi in the States - not without really really searching (and then you'd still have to be in a huge city) or look at Amelie - that was a foreign film and a HUGE success in the states - we just need to open up a bit and let others in - our businesses hold on to the markets in the states to jealously which isn't fair as there is alot of great stuff outside of Hollywood and they EXPECT the rest of the world to go crazy over their films (which aren't always that good and the good ones they DON'T sell over here - Beautiful Mind comes to my mind as one they never tried to get across the sea) not to meantion that just about all the films they sell over here put out a VERY BAD image of the states - that Harvard Bimbo story for one.

French Kids do alot more cultural stuff than we EVER did. You show yourself to be quite prejudiced against the French and I don't know why but I think you should try to actually learn a bit more about them before you say anymore. What do you actually KNOW about the French besides the stereotypes?
""we pushed our culture on everyone and everything not like it is seen as bad"

When? When did the American government force other nations to have McDonalds?"

Not our government in this case - but our attitude and our businesses - who often don't ask the people of a region if they want thier product/store there before putting it up.
""- I came here not to escape a terrible life like many of them but to expand my knowledge of world customs and ideas"

You were taught in America. It was that "brainwashing" of American schools that made you want to learn about other nations. "

No actually it was the lack of opportunity to learn about them in the states and the overabundance of info on simply our little country that made me want to go - I came here because I wanted to learn what I never could in American schools and that was further determined by the fact that I work with internationals at Girl Scout camp every summer and while they can tell me anything I want to know about thier cutures the cultures of the rest of the nations in Europe of Asia AND of OUR culture I could tell them nothing about anywhere but the States - that made it even more apparent how LACKING in Culture AMERICAN SCHOOLS are!

""I also never said that the reason I found for WTC was a GOOD reason - but it was a reason that can't be denied - it accomplished that task very well and while it wasn't good or justified it was a reason and it did work - you can not say it didn't - otherwise why are our BOYS over there fighting and risking thier lives?"

It did not accomplish the task binny and his bussies were hoping for. "

I didn't say it accomplished the task that HE WANTED it to - I said that that was the reason I gave it as it HELPS ME deal with the fact that my cousins were inside when they fell - that was MY PERSONAL REASON which I had stated before - the one that I CHOSE for myself that I will continue to believe until something better resolves out of all this - if something better resolves out of all that - OUr Gov's attention was gotten - they did take action maybe now they will start really looking at how others see us and start dealing with that by trying to improve our image and hospitability towards the rest of the world - then they won't have died in vain.
"I've realized it over and over, that's why i clarified the term "euro trash.""

They AREN'T ALL EUROPEAN EITHER - the Europeans are the MINORITY!!!

"but please, leave France, you're forgetting how to use these two things: , . "

Sorry - Punctuation was never my strong point in school - ask my English teachers - my worst class - spelling was never up there either for that matter or verb tenses....

MAra - ""...they find the French more accomodating than us - and they would be right - it's so easy to get in here as opposed to getting in back home..."
Guess that's why your classmates are lacking in logic and the ability to think for themselves. "

I don't understand what you mean here. If they find htem more accomodating it is because they have a much easier time getting into the system over here - escaping to France is MUCH easier than escaping to the US. As with the Unemployment aspect of it France has a much higher unemployment rate than we do 13% and rising - they still open thier doors much more freely than we do. I didn't say the US was the HARDEST place to get into either - i simply said it was harder than France.

"And WHY do you think that Israel needs a big army and we don't after the events of 9/11"

Not AFTER 9/11 I don't think we do but we didn't - in most people's eyes (including mine I would have rather Clinton spent some more of that military budget of his on Education) BEFORE 9/11 we really didn't.
As with Laisez - Faire - no it didn't work in WWII but anyone could have seen that coming with BOTH HITLER (and Mussini to a lesser extent) AND the Japanese EMPEROR DECLARING practically that they wanted to take over the world - of course it wouldn't have worked then - but it could work now - I see no crazed dictators trying to take over the world right now - do you? If one comes up we can build up the Army again but we didn't need it before 9/11 and we shouldn't after we finish this war.
Yes we are the wealthiest nation in the world - that doesn't mean we have to put our money into the Military - why not send a bit more to jump start African Economies - or put more into our schools - start a nice National Healthcare system for our poor - some of whom still die of preventable diseases because they can't afford health care - trust me I know people in the US who have (I live out in the backwoods where there are ALOT of poor - half my town practically depends on Welfare) There are plent of other more constructive things we can do with our money - we aren't obligated to use it to kill or build forces which have the ability to kill!!
"You talk about the fact that the other countries hate us and don't want us in their affairs. In the same breath you THEN say that we don't pay them any attention til it's bad enough to warrant military action. "
They hate us because they think we only care about them when our military was needed but they have admitted that if we had first shown a Humanitarian Equality type effort first they wouldn't feel the same way - it's like (to them) that we only look for the glory in helping people - not really being helpful.
"If you are all hot and bothered about us shoving our lifestyle on other countries, then WHY do you think we should go parading in offering our help if we haven't been asked? Wouldn't that be shoving ourselves onto them? "
Sending doctors where there is little health care or food where there is a need is not sending cultural aspects like Mc Donalds where people don't generally eat food like that. It's simply helping in a way that they need in order to survive - and we don't have to "advertise" our presence in a big way either - just let the people know the services are there for them if they want them.
And Yes the Military is lives we don't want to squander but try explaining why we don't go in to one place and help cause it looks too dangerous for us when we go into another that outwardly looks the same to the people of the first.
"And judging what your pals seem to THINK they know about Americans, I don't think you should be arguing that the knowledge they DO receive is all that great."

Remember my Friends are not French - the school system I meantioned was the French system purposly pointing out that this was not the case for these friends. As for our school system - you must live in a good state for that - it's not federally required and we certainly NEVER talked about anyone else culturewise in NY!!
As for the cultural awareness in the Concrete Operational stage - it is possible they may not fully grasp it but starting cultural stuff younger helps the integrate it better. (The "cut off" age for Foriegn Language learning is 7 - ie if starting lessons before the age of 7 there is practically a 100% guarantee that the student can acheive Native Language fluency in a second language - after that age the % who do drops off drastically)
"You can empathize with your friend. But if s/he expects every American to APOLOGIZE for that, then I guess s/he needs to start apologizing for Pearl Harbor."
He did.

Now for the bits after my last post:
GS - "You are coming across from a VERY SUBJECTIVE point of view."

I already SAID that I was going to be giving ONLY OPINIONS bacause to UNDERSTAND another group of PEOPLE you have to UNDERSTAND thier OPINIONS - our world is built on opinions more than facts - that is Human nature - that is something you will learn (you said you were in 7th grade, right?) My suggestion to you is to take a Psych class as soon as you can - you will learn that humans are inheriently EMOTIONAL BEINGS - not like you couldn't figure that out for yourself - and that therefore to understand them you MUST understand thier FEELINGS and OPINIONS no matter what the facts say!!! I appreciate that you are trying to be objective and give facts but I'm NOT interested in the facts - I know them, you know them that's great BUT we need to deal with the SUBJECTIVITY of the PEOPLE we are dealing with in order to resolve disputes with them - logic doesn't solve every problem - trying to think from thier point of view doesn't always either but that is a good start.
"One can scarcely base a successful presentation on such statements as, "I know PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO THINK (ie: "believe") "

When the topic is EMOTION - this is the ONLY way as what people think, believe, and feel is the center of the "problem".

As for your project - that great that you have been able to do that - we never did - the school system is slowly changing slowly incorporating new things - but it's not doing enough fast enough - we need to really reform it and quickly - but that is always a controversial topic...

I also keep bring up the past because you keep asking for examples in our past... I never claimed ANY country has a perfet past - but we are talking about ours and ours alone as the rest of the world views it now.

I'm glad we have learned from history I never denied it - but others aren't sure if we learned well enough - we have to prove to them that we did before they will be completely trusting.

Ani - "It's a state thing, I seriously doubt that they forced you to do it. "

Let me quote my Homeroom teacher for you, "If you all don't stand up, be quiet and say that Pledge NOW you will all have detention for the rest of your LIVES!" I think that was her worst morning but it happened - and we did what we were told cause well she loved giving out detentions!!!
"It's the Chinese government who limits the people to one child, what else can you expect but for the people to want a son so they're family doesn't end with them. "
YEs thier system has it's flaws - but it is the traditional values that the boys are better than the girls that they act on - and it is still illegal and the gov is trying to stop it - but overpopulation will destroy the country and without the limits it will happen even faster than it already is!
As for the deathcamps - it takes cold hard proof to do anything about them and we don't have anywhere near enough! As for what their gov said about us - remember they are a big country with nuclear weapons they have to be dealt with democratically - we certainly DON'T WANT them turning AGAINST US!!!!

First of all, your breezy statement of "our world is built on opinions more than fact" is so ridiculous it scarcely merits a response. If THAT statement were true then we would have no industrialization, no technology, no space program, and would be stuck back in the Middle Ages. There would have been many more wars throughout history, less recognition of each other, and our lifespan would probably be somewhere in the 30-35 year range. We would still believe the world is flat and you could sail off the edge where "there be dragons" waiting to devour you. Myriad wonders of the world would be permanently beyond our reach; people would still vow and declare mermaids exist (dugongs) and dragons (komodo lizards) and unicorns (arabian oryx). I could go on and on, but I shall refrain.

To continue: EXCUUUUSE MOI!!! WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?!? Apparently you have misread somewhere: I am SCARCELY in 7th grade any longer; I thought I had written I was filling in for a 7th grade geography teacher. (Did I not say that I lead this class in 7 short weeks through as much Russian history as I could?) I happen to have a bachelor's degree in HUMAN BEHAVIOR and a Master's in Education (endorsed in earth, biological and general physical sciences; two classes from one in physics) -- I have taught for over six years for two universities in Des Moines, Iowa (physical sciences and astronomy) and have worked for a year with another professor in the humanities. I have given several public speeches in topics dealing with astronomy. Furthermore, I have traveled somewhat to Europe, Scandinavia, Mexico, Canada and some of the West Indies and everywhere in the United States except the far NE and Alaska; some business, some pleasure, and some to stay awhile with friends. Thus I PERSONALLY feel I have a background rounded enough to know precisely what I mean when I say:

YOU MISSED THE POINT AGAIN.

I already stated the problem IS dealing with human emotions, which will muck things up every durned time. In order to solve ANYTHING we must be logical and deal with facts. Yes I am fully aware that people are emotional beings and this will probably never come along in our lifetimes. But as long as we are butting heads together fired by feeling and not thought, NOTHING WILL BE SOLVED. NOTHING.

Why? Because NO TWO PEOPLE EVER FEEL ALIKE about something. There is always some degree of difference between them. There will always be some inherent jealousy or disagreement or hatred or something. They might agree on the surface, but on down the road it seems as though it never fails that something arises to get tempers flaring over minutia, and there goes the agreement out the window.

May I point to the recent ridiculousness in the Mid-east yet again? The peace talks seemed to be heading in a good direction... then some unthinking idiots operating out of rage starts even more actively blowing up Israel YET AGAIN. BOTH sides had admitted they want this OVER. BOTH sides said they want to come to an agreement, and were striving to get there. Then this happens, and out of anger our ally pulls back. Apparently even when trying to understand the FEELINGS of another, to gain peace, there will always be someone objecting to what is happening over the peace table. (I wonder if they are so used to this war that they just can't imagine life without it, and it's frightening? Kinda like the new commonwealth nations being loosed from the iron thumb of the old USSR.)

I seriously do not think mankind will EVER quit his petty squabbling with himself. To many variables, too many misperceptions of each other and unwillingness to accept data offerred (facts presented, information about self and other nations, etc.) simply due to mistrust. That is what I fear many of your classmates are going through in their perceptions of us here. Where you get your perceptions in your short span on this planet (dare I say you are around perhaps 24?) I can only speculate as from a school district that needs better teachers. Or else you simply weren't paying attention during school, too busy with... well, you alluded to your "less than perfect" manners somewhere along the way in your posts.

I think you need to remember your English... and make more of an effort to understand exactly what is being posted in this thread. I suspect that you may be missing quite a bit; I did feel all along that your replies were a touch "selective."

I am getting SUCH A KICK out of how you keep using your small worldview, and that of your classmates, to judge NATIONS. Nowhere do I see any attempt on your part to raise fact, or at least respond to the facts (by showing us in your replies that you have tried to research what we have been saying, to realize that what we have presented has been as factual as we could make it) which we have written in our responses to you. Everything so far has been based on either your opinion or that of your classmates. Based on opinions of others. Don't you feel this to be just a touch wee biased then?

Example: so because ONE teacher in your school "threatened" the class to recite the Pledge "or else," our whole NATION is somehow proven to FORCE this on its students??? Now that of course is the faultiest logic I have ever heard in my life. Again, extremely subjective... and the very root of what ails relations between so many nations today. Proof enough to support my opinion that logic must be maintained, facts dug up to present as PROOF of an "atrocity" occurring. Only then can a "perceived problem" be recognized as a REAL problem, and measures begun to deal with it. Otherwise beliefs rally round the old, "(supposedly) Everyone says it is so; therefore it must be true!" flag. Modern nations and peoples with modern, up-to-date world views recognize how damaging subjective reasoning can be, and strive to remain away from it. Education has brought enlightenment. It's others who refuse to be enlightened, who refuse to accept facts but stubbornly adhere to opinionated biases and emotions that are at the root of the majority of the world's ills.

And that, my dear, is what Peace Talks are all about. They are used to pinpoint fact, to separate the chaff of rumor and hearsay from the grain of truth, and act accordingly. Unfortunately, there are way too many others who find it so much easier to simply act on FEELINGS... out of their own small opinions and heated emotions. And this is why I fear truly amicable relations in many cases will never come about in our lifetime. Not truly. The best we can really do is just sit back and let each other run their own show...

...which is exactly what our nation has done throughout its history unless ASKED by other nations to step in with a helping hand.

*POINTS TO THE FACT THAT WE HAVE MAINTAINED OUR MILITARY, although we have downgraded some. Simply said, SUCCESS as a deterrent. Rests case.*

"...They hate us because they think we only care about them when our military was needed but they have admitted that if we had first shown a Humanitarian Equality type effort first they wouldn't feel the same way - it's like (to them) that we only look for the glory in helping people - not really being helpful.
"If you are all hot and bothered about us shoving our lifestyle on other countries, then WHY do you think we should go parading in offering our help if we haven't been asked? Wouldn't that be shoving ourselves onto them? "
Sending doctors where there is little health care or food where there is a need is not sending cultural aspects like Mc Donalds where people don't generally eat food like that. It's simply helping in a way that they need in order to survive - and we don't have to "advertise" our presence in a big way either - just let the people know the services are there for them if they want them...."

*Points to Red Cross. Points to UNICEF. Points to history of missionaries from our churches, which are helping overseas. Points to Peace Corps. Points to Children's Foundation. Probably could point to more....*

And do you honestly believe that every store opened in Zurich or Amsterdam or Munich or Paris or Stockholm or points farther east was placed there at the BEHEST OF THE PEOPLE? Did these businesses take a survey? C'mon now, be realistic!

Personally, I believe you are alluding to your eastern European pals, into whose arena, yes, we now have put a McDonalds. They are opening up to consumerism. Heh... let us show you the way, if you need direction. I scarcely can believe we FORCED McDonald's on them, sheesh. Get realistic. They didn't have to sell or lease us the land or property now, did they, if they didn't want this there.

Finally... in my travels, I have seen plenty of McDonald's, heh... and I've NEVER seen an empty one. And believe me, the majority of the people in those McDonalds' were NOT speaking English!

That movie that you're decribing sounds extremely corny. I have yet to hear of a foreign film that is the eqivalent of Gladiator. There are some good foreign films, Roberto Bonini's film A Beautiful Life, or whatever it was called, was good. But until they can make movies like gladiator, we won't watch most of their stuff, cause we don't like the corniness of it and/or we've done it before. The Harvard bimbo story was semi-funny. And if they wanna assume we are the way we like our films, have them watch the thousand other films that show how we really are, not the comedies. I guess I should assume that europeans are corny, since all their films seem to be corny, right?

I plan on going to France to see it for myself when I'm older, but until then I can only rely on what other people who have gone have told me, and it's been pretty much negative.

"Not our government in this case - but our attitude and our businesses - who often don't ask the people of a region if they want thier product/store there before putting it up. "

If they didn't want it, they wouldn't eat, or buy it, and the store would be closed. Simple as that.

Look, this year, we did World Civ, that means we learned about the past of all european nations, asian nations, and middle eastern nations. The past is what determines the culture of a place. No, I can't tell you the favorite food of a nation, or their favorite dance, that happens next year, in Humanities.

Sure, 9/11 made our government do something about the threat, and for that reason, I wouldn't take it back. But before now you were saying it as if binny would be glad he did what he did.

" "I've realized it over and over, that's why i clarified the term "euro trash.""

They AREN'T ALL EUROPEAN EITHER - the Europeans are the MINORITY!!!"

SHUT UP! JESUS CHRIST AND LATTERDAY SAINTS, MY GOD, GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD! Euro Trash is NOT JUST EUROPEANS, it's all people who decide to sit there and bitch about our country when they've never been here, and when they can find the truth but don't. And don't say many came from nations where they couldn't, because in france they can, and that's where they are.

Of course it'd hard to get into the US, have you ever heard of terrorists, drugs, nukes, and the cold war?

Let me try to clarify what i meant in the our World is built on opinions thing... Basically what I meant is we can never escape them - they are always there and can't be avoided - we need to deal with them. Yes Science and technology has done a lot for us but it doesn't change human nature or the fact that we will always rely on opinion and emotion in our daily lives - the world would cease to be what it is if that changed - life would cease to be worth living!

"I already stated the problem IS dealing with human emotions, which will muck things up every durned time. In order to solve ANYTHING we must be logical and deal with facts. "

This is where I disagree with you - Emotions are a part of life yes - they are always there - then why not try to use them to HELP Solve the problems? - I can be done - I've seen it done - but it is HARDER to do. It is still worth a try. True no two people will or could ever feel the exact same thing about something but if we work to UNDERSTAND how the other feels and approach them in that context - appologize, explain, whatever the emotion calls for we will be able to solve a lot more problems cause then the emotion doesn't get in the way it guides the solution. This does take work from both sides though - which makes it harder. Both sides have to WANT the resolution and the understanding - but it can be done - I do have confidence in our species to make it through IF they put in the effort. True petty squabbling may never cease but we can work to decrease it - that's all we can hope for at least right now.

"Or else you simply weren't paying attention during school, too busy with... well, you alluded to your "less than perfect" manners somewhere along the way in your posts."

Trust me I paid attention in school and I don't know where you get the less then perfect manners from since I only talked about homeroom which is the beginning of the day and therefore the first thing that happens thereby it's quite normal for students to be gossiping before things get going.

Trust me I remember my English just fine - well the grammar is going but then I never was good with that in the first place... I DO understand what you are saying but as I said before I DON'T CARE about facts I have been talking about how to deal with the' EMOTION SIDE of things and ONLY that - which I have said before - I have agreed with you that all the facts you have given are true - that does NOT change the emotion of others! So therby to me they mean about the same as apparently what others feel do to you. I'm not interested.

"Everything so far has been based on either your opinion or that of your classmates. Based on opinions of others. Don't you feel this to be just a touch wee biased then?"

Not when those Opinions are the topic of which one is trying to speak.

"Example: so because ONE teacher in your school "threatened" the class to recite the Pledge "or else," our whole NATION is somehow proven to FORCE this on its students??? "

I just gave one teacher as an example - that was our schools policy and is for the most part the policy of our state at least - there are not to many of my classmates at uni in the US that don't remember being so required to do so in public school - granted we are all from the same part of the nation so it could be a regional thing but we would never have thought that.

"SUCCESS as a deterrent"

It wasn't too successful this year (ok last year) was it? it didn't stop them from doing what they "wanted" didn't phase them at all - it's becoming more of a joke to have a large army with out an immediate war threat to them now.

"*Points to Red Cross. Points to UNICEF. Points to history of missionaries from our churches, which are helping overseas. Points to Peace Corps. Points to Children's Foundation. Probably could point to more....*"

None of these is Government run - and the Red Cross was actually started in Switzerland - or at least it is the Swiss who get the credit - at least on this side of the ocean.

"And do you honestly believe that every store opened in Zurich or Amsterdam or Munich or Paris or Stockholm or points farther east was placed there at the BEHEST OF THE PEOPLE? Did these businesses take a survey? "

I don't believe that everyone was but I do know that some were - ie the 5 that they have had to shut down in this "little" city (ie it's little compared to NYC but it is about equal with Albany - in only comparing to cities i know well) and the other 2 are supported largely by the American students which are abundant in the Unis here... And i have no idea about the survey bit - wouldn't know where to go to ask them either.

Ani - I didn't think the movie was Corny - it was kinda like a Speed type thing which was an awesome movie - you have to admit Speed was great - this just happened to be a taxi - another good French Movie would be Au Revoir Les Enfants - if you haven't seen it I would suggest it but with a HUGE box of Kleenex (ok I needed a huge box of kleenex but then i cried at HP too... you did NOT read that forget what you saw I will deny everything...) It's a true story about the Holocaust which takes place in a private Catholic school that is hiding Jewish boys (it's an all boys school) from the Germans by taking them as students - I won't tell you anymore cause that will ruin the sad part - but it is a very very very good film the guy that wrote it was actually one of the main characters (as it was in a way an autobiography dedicated to his best friend) But ya know - Movies are very subjective - as I couldn't stand Gladiator - but apparently you liked it so our taste in movies differs - I also hated the Bimbo movie... As with the watching the good films - ya know it's funny those aren't the ones that our movie companies try to sell over here - granted LOTR and HP came out in France but everyone already loved the books - Beautiful Mind however hasn't neither hazs Godford park - well it has this week in a special orginal version movie week in this city - but only in this city... They tend to only get the comedies or big budget Sci Fi stuff... Though they did get Titanic - apparently girls over here resist his charm no less than American girls do...

As for relying on what people ahve told you - I'd be interested in knowing exactly what that is (on France) as I have really enjoyed this year - besides the decisive lack of good meat - boy do I miss Taco Bell and BBQ's not to meantion good thick crusted pizza.... Ok now I'm making myself hungry...

"If they didn't want it, they wouldn't eat, or buy it, and the store would be closed. Simple as that"

YOu should see the number of failed American Chains here...

"But before now you were saying it as if binny would be glad he did what he did."

No if you read my first post where I put that reason in I said it was my own to help me deal with the loss of my family - I NEVER said it was his or even hinted that it might have been.

"Euro Trash is NOT JUST EUROPEANS"

By putting the Word "Euro" in there you subliminally say it IS Europeans and that is what I've been trying to put across to you - you can't do that and not insult people - so just don't - try to understand them - which you aren't doing no matter how many times I try explaining.

"And don't say many came from nations where they couldn't, because in france they can, and that's where they are."

THEY DID COME FROM nations where they couldn't look for facts not given to them by thier Government - yes NOW they are in France but you have to UNDERSTAND the language to look for information in it right?
I'm sure you will agree to this as it is simply common sense. And they DON'T know the language - not yet - that is what they are doing in this school - and trust me I've done 8 years of French and know the language very well - but I understand nothing they say on the news - absolutely nothing - and most things on TV are like that - so no they still don't have the ability to find the facts that you want them too.

"Of course it'd hard to get into the US, have you ever heard of terrorists, drugs, nukes, and the cold war? "

People will believe what they want so long as you pet their feelings. Just because I love America and am very dedicated to the nation doesn't mean that will change a European's view of America as a horrible society. I honestly don't think they'd care. If they are bent on hating us, they aren't going to care two cents if we love the country. In fact, it's very apparent they don't care.

What just MIGHT change their minds is a clear presentation OF FACTS about the country that cannot be denied. That's the only think that will change their emotions. I can say "I love America" over and over and a French person won't care. BUT I can point to the times that we've helped them out and that just might get their attention.

And if THAT doesn't get their attention, NOTHING WILL. You can pet their emotions and try to commiserate with them but so long as they are bent on hating us regardless of the facts that have been presented, NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, will change their feelings or their minds.

But don't you go listening to all their emotions and forget the facts that YOU SHOULD KNOW.

You whine about having to say the pledge...it seems to me you have CLEARLY forgotten that in saying the pledge we are remembering all of those WHO FOUGHT AND DIED FOR THE FREEDOMS SO MANY OF US TAKE FOR GRANTED. You talk about how the facts aren't available to your friends in France. HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN THAT YOU HAVE THE FACTS AT YOUR DISPOSAL BECAUSE THOUSANDS...MAYBE MORE...DIED SO THAT YOU CAN HAVE THAT?

AND YOU WANT TO THEN JUST BASE ALL YOUR ARGUMENTS ON EMOTIONS?

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

If you think America is just so terrible, take a look at your less than free pals who can't even get the facts from their own government. And if after that the place still looks so wonderful, why don't you take your blessed citizenship in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and get out? Maybe then you will realize what you truly have.

The comment about the Cold War being over for over ten years...

WHY DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD FORGET ABOUT THAT WITHIN A DECADE WHEN ONLY A BIT AGO YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT OUR NEED TO APOLOGIZE FOR THE A-BOMB, SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED DECADES AGO?

Look at the things YOU are saying. You have repeatedly contradicted YOURSELF. This is just one example.

Like Speed? Yea, a flying taxi....just like Speed...

I've seen that french movie, only it wasn't french when I saw it, must have been remade for one of the languages...it wasn't a bad movie, but it wasn't all that interesting either though (don't bitch just because it's about the holocaust).

What was wrong with Gladiator? Please, tell me. You must really hate history to not like that movie. Even if you don't care much for Roman history, it would still be awesome to see it come to life the way it did in that movie.

Yea, some American chains fail overseas, and the store will close. But the ones that don't fail, mainly McDonalds, is still there, because they still eat it.

"By putting the Word "Euro" in there you subliminally say it IS Europeans and that is what I've been trying to put across to you - you can't do that and not insult people - so just don't - try to understand them - which you aren't doing no matter how many times I try explaining."

Eat my butt. I explained it to you, if you don't get it, stop whining about it. I don't care what someone thinks when they see that, all they have to do is confront me and ask "what the hell is that supposed to mean?" and I'll tell em.

Apparently france isn't as cool as the US, because we have newspapers in all different languages, granted most of those are biased, but they at least give you more info than you get in china.

"Yes and the Cold War has been over for OVER 10 years"

"If you think America is just so terrible,"

I NEVER said it was terrible - i simply said we really need to work on HOW we try to relate to others cause we DO put ourselves across in a very poor manner to those that have never lived there - we NEED to deal with that or we will ALWAYS be hated by the rest of the world.
As tfor the Cold War quote thing - I was not talking about the same thing there as in the A-Bomb thing - I meantioned the Cold War being over for 10 years as a reference to the fact that it no longer directs or foriegn policy towards those nations as was suggested in a post before - the A-Bomb thing goes right back to those still raw emotions that soem hold against us that we need to deal with first and foremost - they were not meant to agree - policies have definitely changed in the governments since the Cold War - Trust me I've been working on going to Russia in a week and it will be possible - and it hasn't been THAT difficult for me - as for 10 years ago when my Aunt was in Europe (ok it was a bit more then 10 years ago but the point being during the Cold War) it was impossible - unthinkable for them to give her a VISA to go - me I just have to go talk to them next Week in Paris and I'm all set! that is the difference those 10 years made - however my Mom still would go crazy if she knew I was going before I went cause the EMOTION of the Cold war is still there as it the emotion from the A-Bomb - they are 2 different aspects of life.

Anakin - ""logic doesn't solve every problem"
What planet do you live on? "
A realistic one - you can't say that just by being logical it really solves the problems that are more emotional - if you think that now wait until you live a bit longer - logic NEVER solves those problems - you will never convince me otherwise as I've dealt with too many of them and the more people try to be logical about them the worse it is for the people DEALING with them - as an outsider yeah logic might seem easy and it might seem like a good solution but it only makes the people involved FEEL WORSE - it will never solve every problem as long as Humans are by nature emotional beings.

"Yea, a flying taxi....just like Speed..."

Yes very much like Speed - he races up a drawbridge as it is being raised and "jumps" off Flying across to the other side - landing successfully - I remember quite a few cars doing that same thing in Speed - he just does it a lot and pops out these little tiny balance things to hop off roofs and over the bad guys car to save the Ambassador...

"I've seen that french movie, only it wasn't french when I saw it, must have been remade for one of the languages...it wasn't a bad movie, but it wasn't all that interesting either though (don't bitch just because it's about the holocaust)."

Well the original was in French but it has been voiced over in most languages (I actually watched it in English the first time in HS) and why would I complain that you didn't like it just because it is about the Holocaust everyone has a right to thier own opinions I'm not going to Force you to like it if you didn't - that would be Immature.

"What was wrong with Gladiator? Please, tell me. You must really hate history to not like that movie. "

No I like history alot - I found the movie was WAY too violent and I don't particularly like violent movies - I felt the same way about Pearl Harbor and Saving Private Ryan - I liked Braveheart and the Patriot only for the nonBattle parts - and the leading actor whom I find to be very good at showing the charater's real emotions - as if you were just talking to the character themselves - or watching a home video on thier lives - as I said - choice in movies is very personal - I hate'd Gladiator that doesn't mean I don't think others should like it.

"Eat my butt. I explained it to you, if you don't get it, stop whining about it. I don't care what someone thinks when they see that, all they have to do is confront me and ask "what the hell is that supposed to mean?" and I'll tell em."

Sorry but that is VERY RUDE and it will get you into trouble later on in life so you might just as well drop the stereotypical remarks now before they DO block you from getting something that you want.

"Apparently france isn't as cool as the US, because we have newspapers in all different languages, "

They do have papers in other languages but like ours they all come from the country in which that language is spoken thereby the have all the censorship of the immigrants' native lands and so is the same for them azs if they were still in thier homeland until they can understand the French enough to read the French papers. Ie the papers i get over here in English are either the Time or British.

""Yes and the Cold War has been over for OVER 10 years"

Except the fact that those in power were raised with the cold war mentality"

The emotion from the A-Bomb isn't there, the emotion from the cold war isn't there in most people either, it's the mentality. People in power now were raised during the cold war, and some of their policies reflect that.

Logic can solve everything, but both sides have to be logical. An example, women alwasy seem to stick around eve if they get beaten every night. Now, they know that he shoudln't beat them, and that she should leave, but she is stuck with "but i love him and he loves me." Why waste your time with idiots like that, huh? Ignore the bitchers and complainers and only deal with the people who are usefull in the world.

No, this was a different movie, it wasn't voiced over, I wouldn't watch a voiced over movie.

Gladiator was violent? It was worse in Roman times. Geez, Peral Harbor and Saving Private Ryan showed a true depiction of what happened. You would rather see a movie about a horrible event have all the horrible stuff taken out?

I don't want anything in Europe, thanks anyway.

Not like ours in regards to the newspapers. Newpapers in other languages in the US are not from other nations, they are based in the US. That's what happens in a free society.

I didn't say it wouldn't solve ANYTHING - I said it can't solve EVERYTHING - there is a very big difference in those 2 words and the sense that they convey.

Anakin - "The emotions cannot change until the facts are given to them."

I never said they could - but going in and saying - "No you're stupid. What you think is right is wrong and this is how it is will only make it worse. Like I said we need to first SHOW them we can be different calm them a bit and then present the facts in a way that does not conflict with thier values and emotional hotspots - but we have to get to know those aspects of thier lives before we can successfully do so. S deal with THIER emotions and prejudices first then work on changing them.

As for the Movie - I do suggest the one I meantioned - it was very good and showed a real personal look into just how ruthless the Germans were with this - and how trapped others felt by it.

And as for Gladiator - jsut because it was violent in those times doesn't mean I have to like the Movie - I didn't like Saving Private Ryan or Pearl Harbor either for that matter - for the same reasons I just don't like Violent Movies - I prefere thinking movies or romances or just plain Fantasy - even the cheesiest Fantasy holds more appeal for me than a movie that capitalizes on violence - it's just a personal preference.

As for the newspapers - why does a nation HAVE to publish newspapers in different languages to be free?? just because we have enough of a population of different language speakers we do - but the companies would go bankrupt trying that in other nations - it makes MORE SENSE to just import them especially in languages like Russian or Dutch which few people speak. I'd like to know how many US newspapers you've seen in Russian?

"We don't act like we're in a cold war? SINCE WHEN!? Why does the executive branch feel the need to lie to congress and keep secrets that are of "national security" interests? Why don't they tell us how many people really died on the taliban's side in operation anaconda? Why would that hurt anything? It wouldn't, they just lie about it."